I see personal attacks, sitting there for literally anyone can see, which is not representative of a community that can handle discussing conflicting viewpoints in a constructive and respectful manner.
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Iâm not aware of who that is or the controversies surrounding him, but in that case, surely they could have closed the thread without calling him âschizophrenicâ and a âtylenol babyâ, yeah?
Either way, FW isnât promoting Drew Devault, they are promoting OmarchyâŚ
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In all honesty, is this the controversy you think about when you mentioned a controversy above?
Do you have any background on Drew and DHH? If not, please allow me: Drew was obviously trolling DHH after setting up on the road to remove him from Rails.
Btw, talking CoC, this is an amazing one:
This thread has unfortunately become that âNazi Barâ. In this thread there seems to be several sets of people:
- Group 1; people who are, frankly upset at Framework supporting/encouraging/sponsoring problematic projects due to their association with far right politics, talking points, and values. They tend to post how they feel about it, how it makes them feel unsafe and unwelcome and generally, how it affects their views on the company.
- Group 2; people who appear to be supporting the problematic projects, but using the typical tatics of the right. These people appear to be making posts that contain sealioning, jaq-ing off (just asking questions), concern trolling and generally attacking the people in Group 1. They are not generally explaining why the projects arenât a problem, why we should embrace the values that the problematic people have (in those projects) and how this would be great for the Framework community.
- Group 3; people who arenât sure, but arenât really in Group 1 or Group 2, possibly because theyâve never felt threatened by Group 2 before, and just want this to all go away as itâs a distraction.
Obviously, with over a 1,000 posts in this thread, this doesnât capture the nuances of all the posts. For people reading the threads, note in the messages whether, for example, the poster is just trying to down-play the issue, or say itâs not a problem, or ask for more clarification (repeatedly) about the issue, or inserting themselves into a conversation and trying to change the subject.
To Group 2 people; I wonât reply; youâre not just not worth engaging, as you are arguing in bad-faith and you know it.
What the very top-of-the-thread posters had warned was that by making it acceptable for the far-right and associated projects to be welcome here, it would draw them to the community. Well, thatâs happened in this thread. Itâs sadly going to gradually drive people away.
That Frame.work donât seem to care (or are rabbit-in-the-headlights frozen on this), means that those of us in Group 1 will probably suspend engaging with Framework, stop buying and recommending the products and go and buy something else.
I bought framework products for the values they espoused, but if those values arenât actually real, and are perhaps a cynical marketing/business process, then I can buy better products from other companies. After all, Framework wouldnât be that different to those other companies apart from actually supporting problematic projects.
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These two articles are useful to this.
The issue i saw was mentions of assume good intent. Which is a common pitfall but actually undermines diversity and inclusion in a community.
How âGood Intentâ Undermines Diversity and Inclusion | The Bias
No more rock stars: how to stop abuse in tech communities â hypatia dot ca
Strangely enough the second article is very pertinent to our topic on DHH.
Edit: I received this from https://frameshiftconsulting.com/ who have a lot of neat guides on what is a CoC and how to use them to build communities such as this CoC guide.
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Do you have any background on Drew and DHH? If not, please allow me: Drew was obviously trolling DHH after setting up on the road to remove him from Rails.
Then just close the thread? Thereâs no need for personal attacks.
Lol
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Again: is this the controversy you were thinking about? The controversy that Framework should have in your own personal opinion considered?
I don´t. To me, if the software is good, its good. If it is bad, it is bad. If its open, I like it as I can study and admire its intricacies and detailsâŚor loathe them 
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What personal attack?
Unfortunately you are a human being and this is an inescapable truth of being human. People have researched these things. We embed our biases in what we do and make.
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Iâm guessing you arenât a member of the community that feels threatened, harassed and victimised by the types of people in the projects that Framework has been called out on for supporting, encouraging and sponsoring. If you are, then please do take a look at their communities. If you arenât, then may ask yourself if youâre a little privileged.
Anyway, this isnât meant as a personal attack. I simply disagree with you and think that issues that affect members of the community should be discussed. People who donât like what Framework should be able to feel free to voice that opinion and state that it affects their decision making on whether to buy products. This is useful information for Framework. If itâs a minority, then it wonât matter in the long run.
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To stay relevant to the point of my original post, if I was in charge of social media promotion for a company, and I go to a thread and see people just blatantly calling others âPOSâ, âschizophrenicâ, âtylenol babyâ, I sure would have reservations about promoting that project/communityâŚ
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Cool, good to see you kept your own preconceived notions at the door. If youâre not feeling unsafe and unwelcome in group 1, or unsure in group 3, youâre in group 2 that can only be sealioning and trolling. Thereâs no other reason you could possibly have a different opinion. Thanks for putting this very simply into 3 easily separable groups to make an us vs them mentality. Really helpful
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No worries. When youâre ready to engage with my post on the FOSS mindset and intersectionality and accept the research that many academics and social scientists have done. Iâm sure youâll be able to find folks whoâll be able to explain more about it.
I would recommend starting with reading Datafeminism. You can read the book here.
Edit: I imagine a lot of people here hold your views and think theyâre the exception. Or that technology is neutral⌠or that all we need to do is focus on the code. That thatâs all that matters. And I wish that were true. 
It would be nice if things were that simple. I get itâs hard to learn new things outside of just code but I hope people will.
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Thatâs good. Some of our biases are ones weâre not conscious of. Theyâre inherent in us and we may not perceive them until others point out to them. Implicit bias or unconscious bias are the term to search for.
To be very clear, this isnât any judgement on you or anyone. We all have biases and they affect the things we make and in turn affect others. towards the original point. Omarchy devs definitely encode their toxicity in the work they make.
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Before I got my Framework, I would buy used Lenovos for myself and my business. I love 13, and while I wonât be boycotting the company, I am incredibly disappointed in their non-response to this issue. I wonât be promoting Framework to those around me anymore. Iâll also be considering used Lenovos for my future laptop purchases again.
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Iâm really curious why this was flagged/hidden, all this was is a video by Gardiner Bryant that discusses the same topic we are.
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Whoâs my âilkâ? Engage with the words Iâve said, not what you think I am.
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