I dont like the audio jack gone

[pani_alex]

@Usernames

Same I was all set to replace my 2015 iphone 6s with a Fairphone until that… Still getting regular security updates so at least one more year… Again!

I mean, the excuses they give were not true at all, taking an insignificant amount of plastic and metal doesn’t help with the weight, it doesn’t also make reparability more difficult, and making the jack waterproof is not rocket science, also not expensive and not difficult. It was a bad move

And for the ports, I think that it will be better to have more so that I can build the layout I like, having the option to change them all the time sounds a little like trouble, and is not optimal, my layout has to be ready to use, not if I didn’t forget the other card or wait I have to go take the other card.
It may be more interesting having all cards in 2in1 configuration, usb c+A, c+hdmi, c+dp, c+jack, c+sd, and so on, so there is no need to make such a big sacrifice

[GhostLegion]

@Usernames

I guess the point was 5 ports you want rather than how many ports…

Correct.

[Usernames]

@Shiroudan

A dedicated dac separated from the high noise mainboard is very nice!

Do we know it is not just a repackaged audio board which, unless I misunderstood what you mean, is already separate from the mainboard? Certainly looks like it would fit.

[Usernames]

@pani_alex

I mean, the excuses they give were not true at all

Edit: The FF3 has not claimed any IP54 rating only 3rd party sites indicated as much while the FF4 has an IP54 rating according to Fairphone themselves.

Agreed, particularly noteworthy is the FP4 has (the same IPX rating as the FP3) a low IP54 rating, the other mains reason was as I recall that the jack could wear out within the 5 year warranty… The best argument they made was the space premium of the internals but it isn’t exactly as small phone either! A done to death topic for sure and one that has lost me as a customer.

@pani_alex

And for the ports, I think that it will be better to have more so that I can build the layout I like, having the option to change them all the time sounds a little like trouble, and is not optimal, my layout has to be ready to use, not if I didn’t forget the other card or wait I have to go take the other card.

I know exactly what you mean and do feel similar but I think this requires a perspective shift and looking to the future.

How often while mobile do you need more than 5 ports and how often do those required ports change? As type C become more ubiquitous the need for different ports and even multiples of them should fade. When at a fixed work space I think using a dock solves the port number/swapping out ports issue entirely but I understand if that isn’t something that works for you or interests you.

I don’t like the feeling of having to choose a limited number of ports and I hate dongles of any description but I see that the benefits of being able to choose and replace ports easily is on balance is better.

[Shiroudan]

@Usernames

Do we know it is not just a repackaged audio board which, unless I misunderstood what you mean, is already separate from the mainboard? Certainly looks like it would fit.

Yes we do, the audio board does not contain the DAC itself. That’s on the mainboard.
nrp also stated that the DAC was far more high end in the expansion card!

[Usernames]

@anon81945988

@Usernames

Agreed, particularly noteworthy is the FP4 has the same IPX rating as the FP3

• Not true The FP3 has no IPX rating

Interesting. I looked into it and found this How “waterproof” is the FP3? IP Rating - #8 by AnotherElk - The Products - Fairphone Community Forum
In the linked thread the user diwic indicates support told them IP54 and the post above that links a post from August 2019 General Fairphone 3 discussion - #20 by z3ntu - The Products - Fairphone Community Forum which states the product page indicates IP54 and nobody seems to contest it there.

Maybe it was unofficially maybe not either way removal of the jack didn’t really make it any more waterproof.

[Second_Coming]

The audio jack is not “gone”…it’s been modularized.

Audio jack, module. USB-A, module. Keyboard, module. dGPU, module. Numpad, module. You get the idea.

It actually makes a lot of sense for the roadmap of repairability evolution. Think desktop, those ‘parts’ are actually modules, with various electronic interfaces. Laptop parts have been too tightly coupled for the last 40 years.

[Sat0xshi]

I think 2 in 1 USB-c and headphone jack port that consume 1 space would solve the problem of not having enough port.

It would be nice to have 2 port that consume 1 space in general like 2 USB a since I don’t need support fast speed for a mouse for example.

[pani_alex]

@Usernames

How often while mobile do you need more than 5 ports and how often do those required ports change? As type C become more ubiquitous the need for different ports and even multiples of them should fade. When at a fixed work space I think using a dock solves the port number/swapping out ports issue entirely but I understand if that isn’t something that works for you or interests you.

I don’t like the feeling of having to choose a limited number of ports and I hate dongles of any description but I see that the benefits of being able to choose and replace ports easily is on balance is better.

It depends on how often you change from workspace, if someone has a laptop that should be the case, otherwise why choose a laptop, nowadays home office is sort of common, so you can change between a minimum of 2 workspaces, and yes, if I have 2 fixed workspaces I will choose to have on each one a dock and only have to hook one cable, but what if your workspace in the office is not fixed, it depends on which desktop is free or work with different teams or need to do presentations in different places. As I see it, the purpose of a laptop is staying in movement and therefore it has to make life easy and not challenge or limit it

@anon81945988

So if one fails you have to replace the whole module ?

It will be better than not having the extra port or have to change it all the time

@anon81945988

I think also you will find the audio jack is not just a jack but a Digital to Analogue Converter and so would not fit in a module with a USB C

the card is thick enough to allocate 2 pcbs or simply use a multilayer pcb

[Adrian_Joachim]

@anon81945988

So if one fails you have to replace the whole module ?

I don’t think that is a good argument against it.

@anon81945988

I think also you will find the audio jack is not just a jack but a Digital to Analogue Converter and so would not fit in a module with a USB C

That’s a better one but given the fit dacs into much smaller spaces for phone usb-c to headphone jack cables (not all phones have an analog output on the usb-c so those aren’t all passive cables) I am confident one could fit into a module along side a usb2 only usb A port or something (using the 3.0 portion for the dac, could also got the other way around but an usb 3 only usb a port would be non standard and potentially confusing).

[Adrian_Joachim]

@anon81945988

It seems you haven’t read Frameworks text on that from a year ago

I have, this isn’t quite the same though. Retaining full fearues on both ports would indeed probably exceed the space. just breaking out the existing io into different parts is a whole other story, especially since pd is out of the picture. Route the usb 2 data lines and 5v to the usb-a socket and the usb 3 data lines to the dac.the only extra components needed would be the dac, the rest is just traces.

[Morpheus636]

@Adrian_Joachim

Obviously, is that a serious argument against it?

Please consider how this remark contributed positively and meaningfully to the conversation and then go back and edit your message accordingly. I encourage you to read the Community Guidelines as well. Here’s a prudent excerpt:

@system

Be Agreeable, Even When You Disagree

You may wish to respond to something by disagreeing with it. That’s fine. But remember to criticize ideas, not people. Please avoid:

• Name-calling
• Ad hominem attacks
• Responding to a post’s tone instead of its actual content
• Knee-jerk contradiction

Instead, provide reasoned counter-arguments that improve the conversation.

[Usernames]

@pani_alex

It depends on how often you change from workspace, if someone has a laptop that should be the case, otherwise why choose a laptop, nowadays home office is sort of common, so you can change between a minimum of 2 workspaces, and yes, if I have 2 fixed workspaces I will choose to have on each one a dock and only have to hook one cable, but what if your workspace in the office is not fixed, it depends on which desktop is free or work with different teams or need to do presentations in different places. As I see it, the purpose of a laptop is staying in movement and therefore it has to make life easy and not challenge or limit it

I fully understand, it is limiting to have to choose or need to carry around expansion cards and it leaves you unable to deal with unexpected needs so easily, the idea of carrying around cards is not something I’m a huge fan of either.

While there are other reasons to have a laptop (such as it taking up less space and being able to pack it away so you don’t need a dedicated desk, energy efficiency etc.) I see your point and maybe 5 ports just won’t be enough for your needs while 6 would have been and that would be frustrating when it’s for a headphone jack that would take up very little external space. It might be that this iteration just doesn’t work for you or maybe dual cards like you suggested could be a reality in the future and that would make the difference…

I’m curious (if you don’t mind me asking) what would be your ideal or minimum acceptable port selection for your laptop? My minimum would be 2X type C, 2X type A, RJ45, headphone jack, HDMI and a card reader, 8 ports and not unobtainable in the 13-14" form factor let alone 16".

[Sat0xshi]

@Usernames

what would be your ideal or minimum acceptable port selection for your laptop?

Seems interesting to see what people in this community need.

For me 2 USB-C, 2 USB-A, 1 HDMI. That’s it I don’t need a headphone jack. Plus I am used to dongle life anyway.

[Usernames]

@Sat0xshi

Seems interesting to see what people in this community need.

Good point it might be worth making a new thread, maybe one with a poll?

[pani_alex]

@Usernames

what would be your ideal or minimum acceptable port selection

2 C, 2 A, 1HDMI (because is more common on projectors and displays), 1 LAN, 1 jack, 1 SD.
On the GPU module 1 HDMI, 1 DP

[pani_alex]

@Usernames

Good point it might be worth making a new thread, maybe one with a poll?

and what combination in the case of the dual

[Usernames]

@Sat0xshi @pani_alex I made the topic here so we can keep this one on topic

[James_Jarrett]

I agree with you, @pani_alex. Framework’s approach is tolerable, but it’s ultimately a bad choice IMO. On the 13" Framework, my ports look like this:

• USB-C for power
• USB-C for USB-C cables, sometimes an external monitor
• USB-A x2 because I often have a mouse and a thumb drive, or a hard drive and a gamepad, or two thumb drives, maybe a micro SD card reader and I’m charging something… gotta have ports.

On a 16", the audio jack is in there permanently, so I’d probably just add another USB-C port. It’d feel almost optimal to have room to add a USB-C port and a Micro SD card port (and an HDMI port if I hadn’t already bought multiple cables for USB-C to monitors). Expansion cards are somewhat better than dongles that protrude, especially for thumb drives, but they’re still effectively dongles. I’d rather never swap them and not carry them separately.

Then as a separate issue, I’m never going to forgive Apple for getting the ball rolling on abandoning headphone jacks. This Framework design is one more nail in that coffin, normalizing a broad trend toward Bluetooth and away from cheap, reliable, high-quality, universal audio between devices. People don’t understand how rare and valuable universal standards like that really are. Sure, this laptop won’t be the last straw, and the camel was already looking pretty unhealthy…

[James_Jarrett]

@anon81945988

Since tapes all audio is in effect a series of digital numbers, so the jack didn’t help at all.

I know what a DAC is. My emphasis with that last bit was on the “broad trend” part. You must be missing that point entirely to not see how old analog audio jacks “help” – the connector is the point.

… rant incoming, I guess.

There was this underappreciated thing with headphone jacks. For a normal consumer, all devices producing or consuming audio could be relied on to be compatible with all other devices producing or consuming audio, without any special adapters. It lasted that way for a long time.

I could plug my GameBoy, phone, radio, iPad, CD player, Kindle, laptop, camera into my headphones, or my dad’s headphones from a couple decades ago, or my stereo, or my car. Laptop into TV, or into speakers next to the TV. No matter which device, there was going to be a low-effort, reliable way to make the sound go in and come out, because everything agreed on this one very basic analog signal and connector as a mutually supported interface that was built into everything. It was too simple to be screwed up by bad implementations, didn’t need batteries, didn’t require pairing, couldn’t be locked down by companies like Sony or Apple, didn’t cause interference with your mouse. Your good headphones had a 0% chance of being unusable to listen to a particular device.

To make it even more magical, by tech product standards, this connector was ancient. You could practically feed a Victrola into the speakers in your hover board. That’s what’s getting casually discarded so Apple can more easily sell AirPods.

There will not always be options to connect audio, especially over time. A lot of modern headphones only support Bluetooth, while the batteries last and while the standards are compatible. A lot of devices don’t produce Bluetooth, and pairing is always annoying and sometimes unreliable. HomePods are great for listening to Apple-approved audio, but there’s no Bluetooth in and no line in. I had a third-party Alexa cylinder, and you couldn’t set up the Bluetooth without connecting it to your Amazon account, as I remember. Apple Bluetooth and Android Bluetooth don’t use the same codecs.

Just so nobody loses track: I’m not saying Framework’s design makes a significant difference. I think the difference between 5 ports and 6 ports is more significant. But it is one more small step towards eradicating the utility of the oldest, best, and most ubiquitous tech standard that will exist in my lifetime.