I was stupid but I might seek redemption [FW12 buying advice]

I am an Apple sheep who was intrigued by the Framework 12 upon its announcement. I sort of forgot all about it until the pre-order email came in. Over the summer I pre-ordered about three times separately, though ended up cancelling. And then ran back to the iPad (Pro M4, Magic Keyboard, AppleCare, the works) as I knew I was bored of the Mac (especially wanting 2TB of space and the prices charged) and wanted a tablet for using it outside of productivity and sitting back to relax.

Well, the iPad came. Beautiful device. Though the first one overheated and many of the ā€˜wow an iPad can do that?’ promises like running VMs were totally crippled, in that case, no JIT so running Windows XP was unusable, let alone anything practical. Took me about three-to-four weeks to realise that. Thankfully Apple let me return it , full refund - very nice of them outside of the usual window. That weekend I re-opened my pre-order with Framework, only to find I missed the iPad and had some new solutions to my issues - namely, remote into a W11 HP laptop sitting around for full no limits workflows when needed, via a Tailscale tunnel and that’s worked well to be honest. I also thought a tablet for reading and note taking would be nice and found out the 1TB iPad and above had 16GB of RAM… no more app refreshing… right? So after a couple of weeks I ordered an iPad Pro AGAIN hoping the better RAM and remoting in would solve my issues the first time. As I said, other than the issues, it’s a stunning device to use.

Now I’m about 7 weeks into using it. College started and my work has picked up (another reason I didn’t want to wait for the FW12 pre order). Turns out… writing with a pencil on screen is way more tedious and time consuming, the notes are awful and refining them into nice study worthy format is even more time consuming! (and a bit of an ergonomic mess hunching over, waving left and right to move around the on screen page). Typing is actually… much more practical. I also study software development, which with W11 on Remote is fine if not a tad laggy. It also turns out, the invincible iPad battery life of yester year is a thing of the past, a proper M4 chip means proper thirst when you actually use it for anything.. I’ve been annoyed by the iPad OS window system, refreshing apps… then apps themselves, incredibly limited. We had to use this Jupyter notebook app for data science, well, no problem, a Juno app exists, a well designed indie app with a good rep. Ā£30, bit much but one time purchase, I bought it. Fine until some libraries and commands are blocked by iPad OS (developer can’t even implement it due to rules). We’re talking simple commands to prepare charts… Then someone recommended this knock off Code app, very like VS code which was Ā£10, I got it, was excited. I knew it wouldn’t be full featured, but the most basic of Python practice (and opening / switching files) causes it to crash. So much for 16GB of RAM helping. I’m stuck with this very beautiful, very expensive brick when really, a very old broken HP laptop with a Pentium Gold is doing the heavy lifting.

So yes, I’m an idiot, I did the same thing twice and expected a different result. But this time there’s no get out of jail free card from Apple. Their support listened and told me everything I’m experiencing is normal and that I shouldn’t expect it to perform like a Mac or PC with memory management and how it’s so efficient .. battery life.. bla bla bla. They won’t bend this time. A business, not a charity, fine. My mistake for sure.

I listed the iPad bundle on eBay (no interest so far) and no wonder, the M5 model just dropped so anything I could have got will surely drop further anyway.

I’m thinking of taking the hit. Buying the FW12 which I now see is instant shipping… But the whole madness of my moves just makes me feel uneasy. Should I think about it longer or is it time to take the hit and pay the price once, to break out of Apple and into something long-term, repairable and with the full flexibility of Windows?

Out of all the people that have posted a similar question, you actually need a laptop.

The 12 is a good laptop, not great. But good. I’ve found it to be totally sufficient for any of my day-to-day DevOps work, and battery life with the i5 is good enough to get me through most of the day, using fedora silverblue.

Go with diy to save 50% on the ram/ssd. Don’t forget, the 12 uses the shorty steam deck sized ssd.

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You mean Linux? :smiley:

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Have you tried using Asahi Linux on your MacBook

Windows is worse than macOS, bloatware that slows the whole computer down, ads on notification and start menu, e-waste caused by unreasonable hardware requirements of Windows 11 while cutting Windows 10 support. Forced online account that is harder and harder to bypass. Forced opt-in of AI analysis of OneDrive that you can only opt-out 3 times a year. Forced updates that caused and causing problems with SSDs and file systems. The 25H2 is causing more issues than ever…the list goes on and on

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I tried Asahi on my MacBook M1. MacOS needs to stay installed, wasting a lot of space on very expensive storage (which you can’t upgrade). In the process of trying to reclaim a bit more space (Asahi was running), I bricked the laptop. The official way of restoring it did not work. I had to go to an Apple store to get MacOS back up-and-running.
Since then bought my FW16.

Obviously, it should be treated as a very fast and very thin client.

I had M2 with 256gb storage, 16gb ram and just gave it away for free instead of playing with Asahi. The time I saved was more than worth it for me to remove it as quickly as I got the itch to try Asahi on it.

When I used the little HP with a Pentium gold this year, surprisingly, it’s quick enough for most of my uses including Jupyter notebooks and coding. It’s only really noticeable during installs or big processing tasks but even then… nothing that makes workflows impossible. Obviously, throwing games at it or running VMs and I know it would quickly not be adequate. Still, I can’t either of those on iPad either.

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Unfortunately, I can’t see Linux working for me. I’m so used to iCloud seamlessness. I was pleasantly surprised to find that even on Mac / iPhone, using Windows / Microsoft tech (OneDrive, OneNote, Phone Link etc) I could now, in 2025, achieve Mac like sync and seamlessness outside of Apple’s services which was reliable (more flexible and better utilities than Apple even). I’m not so sure I could find that on Linux.

And when I last seriously tried using Linux / Open Source software, I found that Libre Office couldn’t do some of the things I needed from Numbers / Excel. And having to double check everything before emailing anything to anyone for compatibility also was time consuming. I quickly ran back to Office / iWork apps. Plus, there was no decent iOS client for it. The amount of times I’ll make a bank withdrawal or savings deposit and when I get back in the car, I fire up Numbers on my phone to quickly update my budget spreadsheet was missing which was a bit of an issue.

My MacBook Pro M1 is gone, gf’s sister bought it (her first Mac, glad to see it). It served me very well. In hindsight, holding on to it for another year or two would have been smartest… I was a bit keen to get rid of it over the summer but didn’t stick to waiting for my FW and ran back to iPad as a ā€˜better than Mac since touch’ solution, but … here I am!

I don’t mind Windows. It’s more Mac like than ever before. Things like Linux sub system and its sheer flexibility or ability to tinker is something that really appeals to me, coming from modern Apple, locked in and locked down, and limited by ARM. I know Linux is maybe more so good for tinkering, but on a longer time scale and requiring more personal knowledge, whereas for Windows, I can run things by colleagues at work or a quick search and find scripts, solutions, utilities, workarounds. Outside of the basics, it seemed hard to me to get things working on Linux. Relatively speaking. Most likely a skill issue on my part, no doubt.t

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General update… my iPad bundle is listed on eBay. Not much interest. One watcher though. Not sure if it will sell… if not, I will just keep it. Technically speaking, in tandem with the HP laptop remotely, and the iMac at home, I am getting by. I am also enjoying the tablet aspect for sitting and studying / reading things.

If it were to sell tomorrow… I’m not sure which direction to go. There’s three devices on my mind - FW12 of course, tablet, and laptop, portable enough to take with me, plus, repairable and open to Windows or Linux… drawbacks being, not the best screen and not the most power - however… these can change and likely will over time since this is Framework. I like that. However it will never be like choice 2…

Choice 2 is an Acer Nitro gaming laptop, it comes in around the same as the DIY FW12 plus sourcing my own RAM / SSD etc. Ā£800 ish. 165hz screen, no iPad Pro OLED, but smooth, sharp enough, not the worst colour gamut either. Plenty of power (for me), can tinker with AI work, coding, VMs, no real limits as far as my use will go. Big, heavy but bigger 15ā€ screen, though no portability. In saying that… I have rarely done any serious work in a Starbucks or outside despite the iPad or previous Macs being fine for it. Decent keyboard too. Not likely to be repairable or to be able to source parts down the line. Can play games, something I’ve not done much outside of Minecraft, though I’d love to play Forza / GTA V and 6. This is tempting, half the price of the iPad, other than portability, not many limits.

The third option is inspired by this little HP… the one I have has a busted hinge, and as of last week, the bottom half of the screen has a visual defect that messing with the ribbon cable fixes for about a second then goes back… sadly, the artifacts on the screen make reading things like a terminal impossible. So using it isn’t an option. But the third option is a 14ā€ or 15ā€ HP ā€˜essential’ laptop, with an i7, plenty of RAM and SSD. Washed out screen but 1080p. Mediocre, but the satisfaction of a utilitarian device that I don’t need to pamper like a precious iPad with its fine finish or be scared of scratching up. One of those devices that will punch above its weight. These come in around Ā£500 ish. Very budget friendly.

It’s a tough one to contemplate. As I type this, the Framework seems the safes option… all three compromise something. If only we knew what the roadmap ahead was in terms of a backlit keyboard, P3 screen, newer Intel or AMD chips. Only one I would hold my breath on is newer chips, we know at some stage these will come.

And of course… the iPad might just not sell. If it doesn’t, that’s fine too, I’ll need to deal with my spending decisions!