If you haven't ordered yet, what's holding you back?

[Ethan_Porter]

I would love to see a framework that is similar in design to a miscroft surface, more of a tablet, with a removable keyboard.

[GhostLegion]

@King_INF3RN0

Interesting. Anywhere I can go to learn more about the CB agreements?

Ah crap, way to call me out lol. I only said that because NRP mentioned it in the Hackernews thread announcing the Chromebook, I bet I can find a link to the thread on this forum. As to what else is detailed in those agreements…no idea where you would find more but I would bet that it’s under NDA.

EDIT: Found it. Relevant quote below.

"Google has fairly strict requirements around power consumption. They have a standard test for 10 hours of active use through common use cases, which we were able to meet. For standby, the requirement is around 14 days. I have to double check where we are on the current software and firmware, but we are close to that number.

We actually did learn some things about the Intel re-timers through this product development that let us come up with ways to improve the behavior on the regular 12th Gen Framework Laptops. We are currently developing a firmware update for that that will improve both active and standby battery life."

[AlanMan]

@GhostLegion

“Google has fairly strict requirements around power consumption. They have a standard test for 10 hours of active use through common use cases, which we were able to meet. For standby, the requirement is around 14 days. …”

Understandable. What is unclear is whether or not selling the Chromebook config with a 61Wh battery causes any additional headaches for Framework, or whether it’s just a matter of confirming that the runtime is at least as long as it is with the 55Wh battery.

I’m aware that the i5 configs are all being sold with the 55Wh battery. Yet this is one thing that’s contributing to my inclination to delay a purchase. Maybe once the stock of 55Wh batteries starts to dry up, they will start selling more configs with the 61Wh version.

[GhostLegion]

@AlanMan

I’m aware that the i5 configs are all being sold with the 55Wh battery. Yet this is one thing that’s contributing to my inclination to delay a purchase. Maybe once the stock of 55Wh batteries starts to dry up, they will start selling more configs with the 61Wh version.

Probably, although at that point they may switch to yet a higher capacity battery. And I seriously doubt the supply of batteries is going to dry up anytime soon. If stock was expected to last less than a year they likely wouldn’t have bothered with making the low end product have 55Whr. Ultimately it is your money but do you really want to wait that out when you could just buy it now and then upgrade when the battery fails or they introduce alternate uses for it as was alluded to in the presentation?

@AlanMan

What is unclear is whether or not selling the Chromebook config with a 61Wh battery causes any additional headaches for Framework, or whether it’s just a matter of confirming that the runtime is at least as long as it is with the 55Wh battery.

A chemistry change will not introduce a regression. It isn’t software that enables that extra 11 percent improvement, it’s chemistry. If the battery is compatible across models then Chromebook will get that same 11% uplift.

[Vasanth_Mohan]

A Surface-style framework (touchscreen and detachable keyboard) would be my ideal usecase. I already have a setup with split keyboards, mouse & external trackpad. My laptop is folded up and serves as a screen+dock almost all the time.

Hopefully they can bring in atleast a touchscreen + 360 hinge in a couple of years (when I’ll need an upgrade )

[AlanMan]

@GhostLegion

@AlanMan

What is unclear is whether or not selling the Chromebook config with a 61Wh battery causes any additional headaches for Framework, or whether it’s just a matter of confirming that the runtime is at least as long as it is with the 55Wh battery.

A chemistry change will not introduce a regression. It isn’t software that enables that extra 11 percent improvement, it’s chemistry. If the battery is compatible across models then Chromebook will get that same 11% uplift.

Of course; by “headaches for Framework” I meant logistical steps that they have to take to satisfy any Google-related contractual obligations. For example, perhaps the contracts stipulate that if any new components or modifications are introduced, a full qualification suite needs to be re-run, and a new set of documentation provided. If that’s the case, then Framework couldn’t simply just start shipping with a better battery.

I might be inclined to pull the trigger if they’d discounted the 12th-gen Chromebook the same way they’ve discounted the all of the 11th and 12th-generation variants.

[John]

The Framework 16 AMD could easily support ECC without needing to ship with it - couldn’t it? The CPUs already support it, but don’t require it. We should be able to add it

ECC - Error Correcting Code - Defaultly Supported Already (Ryzen/AMD)

I will buy a frame.work laptop when it has ECC support. It need not come with ECC, but all of the current Ryzen PRO-based laptops have ECC support by default (in the CPU)… The problem is all the manufacturers don’t care to support it on their motherboards! So many would be frame.work fanboys if you added this in your first AMD laptop. Please consider it; it need not be default to support it! Thanks! P.S. My frame.work wish-list: – ECC – AMD CPU & GPU – As much open source firmware as possib…

[Stefan_Holmes]

I have an 11th Gen and I want the AMD option. I like Framework and want to support them, but buying revision 1 of a product is rarely a good idea. We have brand new AMD chips on a brand new Framework motherboard design. There’s no way there won’t be teething trouble.

I only found out this month that the 11th gen 13" has a hardware fault that will cause the CMOS battery to fully discharge unless the board is connected to power from time to time. I also found that Framework’s fix for this is to tell you (with detailed instructions) to fix it yourself. I understand why, but it highlights “rev 1 is for beta testers” is often true.

[Jonathan_Haas]

@anon81945988

The hardware fault is apparently in the Intel chip which only comes to light if the RTC|CMOS battery fails

There are multiple hardware problems/faults working together.

1. the Intel CPU won’t boot correctly if the RTC battery is flat, but that affects only some chips
2. the laptop uses relatively large amounts of power from the RTC battery when powered off
3. The RTC battery is rechargeable and has a relatively low capacity compared to normal non-rechargeable ones
4. the RTC battery is used even if the main battery has plenty of power (and it isn’t recharged by it)
5. the RTC battery will be over-discharged when already empty, which quickly damages it and reduces the overall capacity even more and compounds the above problems

The Intel chip problem isn’t the only fault. Even without it you’d get plenty flat and damaged RTC batteries and you’ll at least lose BIOS settings, system time and so on.

[Brendan_Seabrook]

I haven’t ordered because I don’t like long wait times between product announcements and shipping dates.

I wish there was something I could have hit buy right after the announcement, but now I’m likely to just wait until general availability.

11th gen is fine for a few more months.

[Usernames]

@anon81945988

That’s the main problem as it may require a hard reset which is an unexpected manual intrusion.

I would have to disagree, the bug you refer to is only exposed because of the other issues stated before by @Jonathan_Haas.

Let us not forget that the laptop requires a charged RTC to boot irrespective of the Intel bug, we are not talking about just loosing BIOS settings/reset clock the machine will not boot.

[Usernames]

@Stefan_Holmes

I like Framework and want to support them, but buying revision 1 of a product is rarely a good idea. We have brand new AMD chips on a brand new Framework motherboard design. There’s no way there won’t be teething trouble.

This.

I wondered the same especially considering how the reason there was no AMD option was because Intel has more capacity to support in board design and development…

With the 16" I started to see all the different parts to the chassis as potential points of failure/being held by magnets again and not screws how flimsy it might all feel.

I hope to be completely wrong and that FW smash it but there is now way there won’t be issues and personally I wouldn’t get either 1st gen AMD or the 1st 16".

[Jonathan_Haas]

At this point, the AMD 13" laptop looks really attractive, but my current laptop still functions relatively well, so I’m waiting for first reviews or customer experiences. Also I’d love if Framework would start a EU based daughter company so hey can give support and ship parts locally and follow EU regulation properly.

[Jonathan_Haas]

@anon81945988

What gives you the idea that Framework are flouting EU regulations, which regulation(s) ?

EU warranty law for example. According to EU law if you sell in an EU country, you have to provide warranty in the whole EU, but Framework insist to only support chosen countries.

If Framework were an EU based country, you could sell within the whole EU if you followed the regulations of that single country (which of course follows EU law), so a lot of stuff would get probably easier.

[Jonathan_Haas]

@anon81945988

You may find that means if you are a EU company then you have to warranty EU as sales in the EU but it makes no sense to try and force a foreign power to conform to ‘Local’ EU legislation.

That’s exactly why I want them to start a EU based daughter company.

[MadHatch1971]

The only thing holding me back is lack of funds this month - but that will change in a few weeks time, and I will “pull the trigger” and order a Framework 13

[Martynas]

My EU country isn’t available but also reshipping is not encouraged.
People wrote about “import once – ship to any EU country” but for some reason it’s still hard to do for FW.

What if my employer or my cousin is located in a country that you support; does this count as reshipping? And what if I would visit them and pick it up myself?

Also what I noticed is that I can’t buy a spare keyboard right from the start. I’d like to do an order and buy a second keyboard or a second screen right from the start.

[Bas_Roset]

I’m holding back for a 13” Intel variant because of all the talk of high fan noise.
Would love to see a mod for a passive CPU cooling option, or better thermal management.

Also I’d like to see a touch screen option.

[Martynas]

@Bas_Roset

because of all the talk of high fan noise

The weaker the processor you choose the less fan noise you should have.
So possibly they maxed out the CPU when in reality they could’ve went with a weaker one.

I have a laptop with 5900HX processor and I reduced its power to make it more quiet. It’s a very fast processor for a laptop and it doesn’t last long on battery but then you can actually run several games at the same time, several app servers and it doesn’t even flinch. So you know… this is why the fan starts to spin. And you should tweak the fan and maximum performance to your needs.

[GhostLegion]

@Martynas

What if my employer or my cousin is located in a country that you support; does this count as reshipping? And what if I would visit them and pick it up myself?

This is actually fine. Just realize that any support requests would need to go through your cousin. Employer seems less fine but it might be. Ask support for more details. And you should be able to add additional things to cart besides the laptop. Unless it’s a pre-order.