If you haven't ordered yet, what's holding you back?

Just FYI, while Framework is a US company, all of their laptops are manufactured in Taiwan. I didn’t see anyone bring up this point, but in case it’s a deal breaker for you I wanted to point it out.

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This is a good point. Not only are the parts manufactured in Taiwan, but packaged and shipped form there as well (which is why you see people complaining about their laptops being stuck in customs in Alaska here and there sometimes). They are a US company but the product is physically outsourced atm.

Supporting Taiwan seems like a friendly option
:taiwan:

I would love to see a framework that is similar in design to a miscroft surface, more of a tablet, with a removable keyboard.

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Ah crap, way to call me out lol. I only said that because NRP mentioned it in the Hackernews thread announcing the Chromebook, I bet I can find a link to the thread on this forum. As to what else is detailed in those agreements…no idea where you would find more but I would bet that it’s under NDA.

EDIT: Found it. Relevant quote below.

"Google has fairly strict requirements around power consumption. They have a standard test for 10 hours of active use through common use cases, which we were able to meet. For standby, the requirement is around 14 days. I have to double check where we are on the current software and firmware, but we are close to that number.

We actually did learn some things about the Intel re-timers through this product development that let us come up with ways to improve the behavior on the regular 12th Gen Framework Laptops. We are currently developing a firmware update for that that will improve both active and standby battery life."

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Understandable. What is unclear is whether or not selling the Chromebook config with a 61Wh battery causes any additional headaches for Framework, or whether it’s just a matter of confirming that the runtime is at least as long as it is with the 55Wh battery.

I’m aware that the i5 configs are all being sold with the 55Wh battery. Yet this is one thing that’s contributing to my inclination to delay a purchase. Maybe once the stock of 55Wh batteries starts to dry up, they will start selling more configs with the 61Wh version.

Probably, although at that point they may switch to yet a higher capacity battery. And I seriously doubt the supply of batteries is going to dry up anytime soon. If stock was expected to last less than a year they likely wouldn’t have bothered with making the low end product have 55Whr. Ultimately it is your money but do you really want to wait that out when you could just buy it now and then upgrade when the battery fails or they introduce alternate uses for it as was alluded to in the presentation?

A chemistry change will not introduce a regression. It isn’t software that enables that extra 11 percent improvement, it’s chemistry. If the battery is compatible across models then Chromebook will get that same 11% uplift.

A Surface-style framework (touchscreen and detachable keyboard) would be my ideal usecase. I already have a setup with split keyboards, mouse & external trackpad. My laptop is folded up and serves as a screen+dock almost all the time.

Hopefully they can bring in atleast a touchscreen + 360 hinge in a couple of years (when I’ll need an upgrade :slight_smile: )

That seems to be the way to go, wait it out if you are not in a rush to get the best laptop on the market :slight_smile:

Thanks for the reminder: another excuse for me to hold off buying a second machine. :cry:

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Of course; by “headaches for Framework” I meant logistical steps that they have to take to satisfy any Google-related contractual obligations. For example, perhaps the contracts stipulate that if any new components or modifications are introduced, a full qualification suite needs to be re-run, and a new set of documentation provided. If that’s the case, then Framework couldn’t simply just start shipping with a better battery.

I might be inclined to pull the trigger if they’d discounted the 12th-gen Chromebook the same way they’ve discounted the all of the 11th and 12th-generation variants.

The Framework 16 AMD could easily support ECC without needing to ship with it - couldn’t it? The CPUs already support it, but don’t require it. We should be able to add it :slight_smile:

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What’s holding me back, the sheer number of options.

Before all these new options I had thought I may get a ‘spare’ in the new future but the massive options leave me aghast at what may be around the corner.

I need a while for the dust to settle.

I have an 11th Gen and I want the AMD option. I like Framework and want to support them, but buying revision 1 of a product is rarely a good idea. We have brand new AMD chips on a brand new Framework motherboard design. There’s no way there won’t be teething trouble.

I only found out this month that the 11th gen 13" has a hardware fault that will cause the CMOS battery to fully discharge unless the board is connected to power from time to time. I also found that Framework’s fix for this is to tell you (with detailed instructions) to fix it yourself. I understand why, but it highlights “rev 1 is for beta testers” is often true.

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Not quite

  • The hardware fault is apparently in the Intel chip which only comes to light if the RTC|CMOS battery fails

  • The ML1220 is reported to have a capacity for 80 days, but if you go beyond, say 40 days, then the degradation is high and it will not last long.

  • Also the design didn’t allow for the ML1220 to be charged form the main battery. Redesigned for the 12th gen etc.

But yes having been REV 1 buyer and helping along I’m inclined to sit back for another year or two and see what tales and cries the wind blows ashore.

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There are multiple hardware problems/faults working together.

  1. the Intel CPU won’t boot correctly if the RTC battery is flat, but that affects only some chips
  2. the laptop uses relatively large amounts of power from the RTC battery when powered off
  3. The RTC battery is rechargeable and has a relatively low capacity compared to normal non-rechargeable ones
  4. the RTC battery is used even if the main battery has plenty of power (and it isn’t recharged by it)
  5. the RTC battery will be over-discharged when already empty, which quickly damages it and reduces the overall capacity even more and compounds the above problems

The Intel chip problem isn’t the only fault. Even without it you’d get plenty flat and damaged RTC batteries and you’ll at least lose BIOS settings, system time and so on.

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  1. That’s the main problem as it may require a hard reset which is an unexpected manual intrusion.
  2. Yes as it doesn’t have the backup from the main battery
  3. It’s about half the capacity of a CR1220
  4. That’s the same as 2
  5. Yes that’s the way it goes

So there’s a variety of issues but really only down to the ML1220 not being charged from the main battery, all else can then be mitigated.

What ugly fun some people may find. :frowning:

I haven’t ordered because I don’t like long wait times between product announcements and shipping dates.

I wish there was something I could have hit buy right after the announcement, but now I’m likely to just wait until general availability.

11th gen is fine for a few more months.

A few more years I’m planning :slight_smile:

I would have to disagree, the bug you refer to is only exposed because of the other issues stated before by @Jonathan_Haas.

Let us not forget that the laptop requires a charged RTC to boot irrespective of the Intel bug, we are not talking about just loosing BIOS settings/reset clock the machine will not boot.

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This.

I wondered the same especially considering how the reason there was no AMD option was because Intel has more capacity to support in board design and development…

With the 16" I started to see all the different parts to the chassis as potential points of failure/being held by magnets again and not screws how flimsy it might all feel.

I hope to be completely wrong and that FW smash it but there is now way there won’t be issues and personally I wouldn’t get either 1st gen AMD or the 1st 16".

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