Thanks. I just checked the BIOS and I have the InsydeH2O version as GFW30.03.07 which I assume means 3.07. I’ve not run a BIOS update, only the driver pack, so it seems some devices from batch 8 in February got the BIOS update in the factory just in time before dispatch.
Well I’ll plug it in occassionally to keep it between 50% and 80% but I won’t always plug it in while I’m using it. It’s definitely seen the charger quite often though, usually an hour or so every few days to keep it between 50% and 80% as mentioned above. It seems though that this is not enough to charge the RTC battery and that it must be kept charging overnight to properly charge the RTC battery or keep it charged? The whole issue just seems very unclear. The problem is that if the main battery has sufficient charge I expect the laptop to be able to start normally every time, not have to always be within reach of a power outlet just in case the RTC battery has suddenly drained without warning thus requiring AC power before the laptop will start.
I may have been unclear. The laptop has been working properly for 4 months or so since I got it. Just this week I encountered the problem whereby there was no response at all when pressing the power button - no lights at all and no activity from the laptop. Only when I plugged in the charger did I see the side lights as I described and the laptop powered on, clearly showing symptoms of the BIOS battery having drained (for example the clock had stopped).
I contacted support about the issue a few hours ago. It may take a while for them to respond and it depends on how clear their explanation is. I’ll let you know what they say. I still, however, think these boards should be replaced, if the problem can’t be resolved with some kind of patch. It wouldn’t be so bad if you didn’t have to strip the machine down to reset it. Having to remove the battery plug and replace it will eventually lead to failure or a broken CMOS battery holder.
Does that mean Framework has been aware of this battery drain issue all this time, and the rechargeable button cell was put in place as a ‘workaround’? And now that Framework ‘improved’ the reset mechanism means this drain button cell drain isn’t hasn’t be resolved?
In that case, the ‘indication’ that the issue is really fixed is when we see the board can be used with a non-rechargeable button cell battery?
“We rectified this issue in our most recent firmware update, and it should no longer be an issue if you’ve previously done so. If you haven’t already, we recommend that you upgrade the firmware. You can follow this guide: Framework Laptop BIOS and Driver Releases”
The thing is, I already had 3.07 installed, so, that doesn’t fix the issue at all. I updated to 3.08 yesterday, I’ll see how that goes. Not holding out much hope though.
The answer they gave relates to the question/issue I asked about battery drain and need for removal to reset the laptop. They didn’t go into any detail about what causes the issue exactly.
The link they gave takes you to a page with bios v 3.07 and a description that the issue of battery drain is resolved with v 3.07. v3.08 is still in beta, not officially released.
So I pulled my laptop out of my bag and tried to turn it on to no avail.
I plugged in the power and it turned on right away, I unplugged power turned it of and tried again and it powered without the power plugged in (the battery has 71% on it). Figured that was a fluke but now it has done the same thing 2 more times in a row since then. In other words I need power every time after it has sat for a day or so.
Any thoughts?
Right, a somewhat definitive answer from support that suggests this will always be a problem.
"The RTC battery can get drained when the computer is not in use and is not plugged into the charger. The RTC battery will last a maximum of 2-3 weeks in this state before being drained below a level where it can function properly.
The battery powers the real-time clock of the mainboard’s chip that wakes up the circuitry and is responsible for holding the status of the circuitry while it is turned off as well. That means that when the laptop is completely off, the RTC battery is continuously used by the MB circuitry and gets drained of its stored power.
With the RTC battery in a drained state, the RTC needs to be removed for at least 15 minutes and then placed back in (after the trickle charge of at least 24hrs). Removing the battery allows it to rest from the continuous drain placed on it by the MB circuitry. It can recover some of its charges to a minimal level where it can function and allow the laptop to be powered up and booted again. At this point, the laptop will need to be charged continuously for at least 24 hours for the RTC battery to regain a full state of charge.
The difference between rechargeable & non-rechargeable RTC batteries is their chemical compositions & their physical sizes depending on the motherboard that it is meant for.
The reason why we use the rechargeable one is that it inclines with our principle of reducing e-waste & be sustainable for our environment."
A design issue? To me, definitely. So, it seems, the only way around this is to upgrade to a 12th gen mainboard. Make of it what you will.
I still don’t understand why a CMOS battery would experience such a high level of drain. It won’t even last longer because of the repeated charge/discharge cycles. This problem, in effect, makes the laptop semi productive. I still think Framework should make some real offers of redress. Swapping boards at half price is an option that I would accept, although people would still be out of pocket. I really want to support this company, but they should have made sure this kind of thing wasn’t an issue before production.
The really annoying thing is that, obviously, these forums are monitored, a lot of users are facing this issue, and framework seem to be completely ducking the issue as though it’s not their problem.
I haven’t seen any official response.
It is rather concerning that Framework hasn’t come out with a general statement regarding this issue. Back when I contacted support about my “excessive battery drain when completely shut down issue”, all I got was a “this is normal, sorry about your luck” email.
They really need to step up, and make some kind of statement, be it good, bad, or otherwise.
P.S. Despite this issue, my Framework laptop is hands-down my favorite laptop I’ve ever owned, and I’ve been a software engineer for 30+ years now. If they can just improve the battery drain issue, I’ll be a happy camper and tell everyone I know how great Framework products are.
Yeah, sorry, I should have been more clear. My problem is that the battery drains excessively when the laptop is in a complete shutdown/powered off state. Regardless, these issues are all interrelated.
I initially had the “laptop won’t power on unless I plug in the AC power” issues too, but the 3.07 bios fixed that one for me. However now, if I leave the laptop sitting in its bag, completely power off, I have excessive battery drain the next time I boot it up. As a work-around, I have to enter BIOS prior to shutting down and enable the 'battery disconnect". It’s a real PITA and I’m hoping the 3.08 bios (if it ever comes out), will help with this issue.
I note that new Framework laptops ship with “battery disconnect” enabled, which leads me to believe that they were well aware of the battery drain issue already…
That’s actually the current industry behaviour…even for ThinkPads (since a few generations back).
Background:
I tend to buy 2-3 laptops per CPU generation, so I typically compare laptops of the same generation…instead of comparing laptops across generations.
The RTC battery issue is, by far, the worst case. Expecting users to go through an invasive and protracted reset procedure after a few weeks inactivity is completely unreasonable and in UK law, makes the machine “not fit for purpose.” the only time you should need to remove a CMOS battery is when the battery is “end of life” and needs replacing.
As already stated, a clear explanation of the chances of a fix should be addressed. The few support messages I’ve sent, they ignore the question or seem to talk aound the issue. I gave up in the end.
At this point, I wish there’s a collaboration between Framework and, say, Asus, to work this shxt out. The inexperience (in anything and everything mainboard related) here is coming through. (Not because of having issues…but having unresolved issues for so long)
Plus, ideally, the mission is for Framework to provide the framework and steer the course of consumer electronics. I wish other manufacters would come in and provide mainboard alternatives / variations.
Trust me, I’m buying the Framework ideas, great support, modularity, repairability, parts availability…etc. But the actual product needs to step up. The ‘platform’ is great…but there are some real gaps to be addressed.
