This is what we aren’t sure about since the dialog seems to be rather one-sided since the last time we heard from @nrp. I haven’t gotten any more responses to my support ticket (previously they were replying a couple times per day) so we aren’t sure what is going on. Are they discussing options internally? Are they preparing to share more info on a plan? Are they investigating how to fix? Without any feedback it feels like they are just ignoring entirely and hope folks sell their machines and stop discussing it here so the internet forgets 
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This thread on same topic of Laptop will not power on
Power Button Fails to Start Laptop after a day or three switched off
Made two attempts to post this
I’m sure they are but maybe getting a fix is too complicated to work out quickly, they are thinking, but hopefully not along the lines of ignoring the issue and users, though they can only respond as they see fit.
@Burt
A lot of the cases may be that the RTC battery is not properly charged. Giving the main batteries charge state 10% or 90% is a distraction as it is not relevant in powering on as long as there is charge and it doesn’t charge the RTC battery which if it did, would seem to resolve the issue.
Some confusion here. If I gave the impression that the level of charge on the main battery 10% 90% or whatever was in some way related to the charging or level of charge of the CMOS battery then I didn’t mean to imply that.
I had quoted somewhere that an interesting and detailed report on main battery state and use is available via a Microsoft utility, this is useful, but didn’t include anything about the CMOS battery state, charge level etc.
What I did post maybe yesterday in one of the three threads on the subject of the PC not powering on without the aid of the mains power supply was that the official response is that there isn’t any CMOS battery information available like voltage, state of charge etc. in a Windows utility (as there is for Desktops), where there is detailed info on 12v and 5v supplies, temp at various paces on the mobo etc. The official answer from support on info on the CMOS is an unequivocal NO.
What I have not asked is info on the voltage charge state etc. will be available in the new model.
Regards…
Well the information is there and maybe one day someone will access it.
However the RTC/CMOS battery in a laptop with a ‘main’ battery would ideally be kept fully charged to at least 2.8V and none of the issues in these few threads would occur.
How are you sure? Did you get a confirmation from framework somewhere?
Simple logic and probability
Given a number of complaints and that some sort of issue has been acknowledged then they must be thinking about it.
On and off no doubt as people have many things on their minds.
The issues is when both the RTC and then main battery go dead, USB-PD cannot negotiate and alongside that the 11th gen processors go into a bad powered state which is fixed by pulling the RTC.
I’m still trying to get my head around why the 11 gen processor has any power let alone a bad power if the laptop is properly off.
Framework support have just come back saying the RTC needs charging. I’ve asked them why this laptop needs to be treated this way and no other laptop I’ve owned.
“To summarize, we have to plug in the laptop with the power adapter for at least 24 hours every once in a while to let the RTC recharge and prevent a low battery state resulting to not powering on if not connected to the power adapter. Can we try to plug in the laptop for at least 24 hours and see if this will help?”
Under UK law it’s past the 30 days but they do have the right to try to repair or replace. If they cannot or won’t then by law I can ask for a refund.
We shall see.
UK law gives the user 6 years to complain with local goods I’m not sure how this works with the US but you have a 2 year warranty
The problem is, if you don’t follow the setting up instructions and guide that say to charge the BIOS/CMOS/RTC battery for 24 hours then you have no claim.
If you do that and then follow any further tests by Framework they may replace any faulty part or the whole.
But is this a repair or a user failure ???
My argument would be that this issue wasn’t clear and I find that maybe a cause for concern.
I followed the instructions as per -
Nowhere does it say to charge for 24 hours (as of today). So That is irrelevant. I doubt any other laptop would ask that either.
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That is the start guide, there is a guide on fixing this issue that says charge it for 24 hours.
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Yes but the inference was that I should have known about that from the start when I got the machine.
It isn’t anywhere in the initial or basic instructions anyone needs to get their laptop working.
Yes now I can try the 24 hours charge test. If that doesn’t work then I assume I have a faulty laptop and Framework can work with me to deal with the situation to get a properly working one or refund me.
The laptop should work straight out of the box, you just need to disable ship mode by plugging it in.
Guys at this stage we just need Framework to officially confirm if its a design feature or a design flaw.
And if it is a design flaw then what steps are they going to take to deal with it or mitigate it.
Is this another fault/bug that needs fixing? That’s all.
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This is a bit repetitive but what feature are you talking about
-
The selection of the battery > Design
-
That the battery requires being fully charged to last a few weeks > Default for other laptops too so not a flaw
ACER, ASUS ML1220/2E2E0X and BENQ (ML1220-WR) CMOS RTC Battery -
It has a discharge capacity of 30µA/h and 17mAh capacity given a nominal 567 hours of use or 24 days
So if the computer is not connected to power and the ML1220 is low there will be a problem in that it will not do it’s function
Now the issue is the idea that the laptop won’t power on without the ML1220 being above , let’s say 2.3V
That could be a design flaw which I think has been attended to in the 12gen.
But this topic isn’t saying that it says it will work when plugged in, so the ML1220 hasn’t lost voltage to the degree the laptop won’t turn on it just requires more charge.
This would sensibly a design feature to stop the ML1220 from discharging so much it has to be removed to recover.
This last situation is the worst case and anyone would want to avoid that.
So now it’s down to the user
- do they keep the ML1220 charged or not. The notion is it should be plugged in for maybe 10 hours a week minimum
If the user still has a problem I can only think of two other issues
- there is a higher drain on the ML1220 and so it needs charging more often, maybe every few days. That would not be by design
- the ML1220 is duff and has a very low capacity. > Failed
You are actually adding to much of the repetition by not seeming to grasp what some of us see as a simple situation.
Feature or flaw?
Never had a laptop in 20+ years of laptop usage/repair and support act like this.
I don’t know how much more simple I can make this. I just want clarification from Framework.
Then we can move forward.
If it’s a feature then it needs to be highlighted to potential casual users like myself before purchase. .
If its a flaw, can we have a fix or a refund? As more people buy in the potential grows for more users to have the issue, especially if it’s in the Gen12 too.
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That bit I can see but what situation does it refer to as not all users have such a complaint.
But sure I’ve had laptops, exclusively, since 1996 and never had such a problem and still don’t, yet 
So it doesn’t have to be either.
I don’t think it would be a feature, who wants that, but a flaw ??
This is what I am trying to grasp. Different users have different issues which may all come down to the ML1220 being discharged, but for various reasons.
So whereas there may be no flaw in design there are clearly some users are not happy; and as you, others and I have said, clear prior information would have made sense as some people may well have chosen not to buy.
But again there is info that the ML1220 requires charging but my understanding is that in other laptops that is not an issue that the user has to deal with, or is it??