Nearly always loud fans and "no boot device connected"

jakob_wankmueller · January 20, 2022, 11:13am

Hey There

After having to order it to EU through a friend of mine in the States I finally got my Laptop In general I am quite happy with everything and expected some tinkering.
But I did run into some problems which I hope someone can help me with.

My specs are:

CPU: Intel® Core™ i7-1165G7
WiFi: Intel® Wi-Fi 6E AX210 No vPro®
SSD Festplatte: 1TB - WD_BLACK™ SN850 NVMe™
RAM Arbeitsspeicher: 32GB (1 x 32GB) DDR4-3200

While using it normally, browsing, email, etc. the fans are spinning quite fast and loud. I do have a Monitor(1440p, 144hz) connected which could be the CPU/GPU sucker. But I was hoping it could handle it.

The cpu temps are at 55-65 C recorded over about 20 minutes. Does that seem normal?

From my Laptop before, I was used to it being loud for a short time to cool down again, but it seems to me it is either generating too much heat or the fans are not set up correctly.
Is it possible to adjust the fan curves? I have tried FanControl and Argus Monitor, both of them did not work, could not access the fan.

But maybe someone knows better and can share their insights.

I also had my pc go into a sort-of bluescreen. I noticed that after it going into energy saver/standing around for a while, I get the message “no boot device connected” and its running really hot and the fans spin like crazy.
After turning it off and on again it works just fine. I have also checked the SystemLogs, but my knowledge’s limit is approaching there. If it helps I can share them.
Reinstalling Windows in multiple ways also did not fix it. I am temped to get a different SSD to test it but right now I don’t have one available.

Could the SSD be corrupted or maybe the slot? Maybe a Windows or Energy Saver problem?

I hope everything is understandable and someone can help me

Thanks in advance!

Jakob

Fraoch · January 20, 2022, 3:15pm

Have you updated the SSD firmware?

https://wddashboarddownloads.wdc.com/wdDashboard/DashboardSetup.exe

2disbetter · January 20, 2022, 3:24pm

Based on your temps, your fans being on sounds about right. It is hard to say whether or not those temps are normal when we don’t know the workload. Browsers today are big bloated operating systems, effectively, and they can tax the system and CPU quite heavily.

From an operating standpoint your temps are totally fine.

I can tell you that from my own experience those temps are for when something is compiling, I’m gaming, or doing some other CPU intensive task. I normally sit around 40C with 12 programs across 6 workspaces open. (mostly email, various chat, music, IDE, Workstation, SSH client, VNC Client, and Steam)

Jason4 · January 20, 2022, 11:58pm

Okay, so, what you may be experiencing is a problem with heat transference through the heat sink out through the fan. Just for your information 55 - 65 C is not normal except under heavy load and usually for 15 minutes or less. I know for certain the I-7 chip runs especially hot which may explain why your OS is blue screening. Using a good thermal compound on your APU (the integrated cpu and gpu on your mother board can potentially decrease your operating temps 15 C or more depending on what you use, I personally recommend one with a rating of 12 or higher but really any thermal compound with a rating of 5 or higher will do, just remember, the higher the rating the better it’s supposed to work. If you’re feeling especially adventurous, I would recommend liquid metal thermal compound. I hope the advice from an old computer geek has helped you.

jakob_wankmueller · January 21, 2022, 12:04pm

@Fraoch I did that now and see if this resolves the issue. Will report back if it arises again. Thank you!

@2disbetter If there would be any kind of heavy load I wouldn’t question it. But I literally had firefox open and the fans started going ham. I now decreased the refresh rate of my external monitor and that sees to have helped quite a lot.
But I still have to unbloa everything in Windows, so that could resolve some issues aswell. Cheers

jakob_wankmueller · January 21, 2022, 12:05pm

@Jason4 I read about some issues with thermal paste aswell but did not think it would have such a big impact. As I said a little earlier I reduced my refresh rate on my monitor and now its not spinning up so high. Would you still replace the combound? Thanks

Thanks for the responses and help, I really appreciate it!

Jason4 · January 21, 2022, 9:32pm

Your welcome!
And yes, I would replace the thermal compound for one simple reason: the compound that the laptop (any laptop really is usually the cheapest (lesser quality) pile of poo (crap) that can be used while still allowing the laptop to function.

Nandor_Hulverscheidt · January 23, 2022, 1:20am

Hi, just a comment on the refresh rate of your external monitor (of course I don’t know what values exactly you tried when you reduced the refresh rate):

In my experience, it doesn’t have to be high refresh rate per se that causes issues, it could be the ratio between monitors with different refresh rates.

Take my desktop as an example - even though it’s not powered by an Intel iGPU but an Nvidia card the same principle might apply. I have a 144hz main monitor and a 60hz secondary. Even with only the OS and no apps running the GPU will not use it’s low power state. This changes immediately once the main monitors refresh rate is lowered to 120hz giving a 2:1 towards the 60hz secondary screen.

So if you’ve currently set your external monitor down to the Frameworks refresh rate of 60hz it might be capable of doing more without taxing the iGPU all the time.

Technical explanation for this? Out of my league, maybe the GPU has to keep two separate refresh/clock cycles if monitors cannot be aligned in that way. Would be interesting what a GPU (software) engineer would have to say on this topic.

Sam_Murray · January 23, 2022, 4:52pm

We can test this. In fact, I can test this myself as I have a 144hz 1080p monitor.

Basically, you should be able to disable your laptop’s display while the other monitor is connected. If the above is correct this should also bring the temps down, even with your monitor running at its full refresh rate.

I’ll update when I can get to it.

Sam_Murray · January 24, 2022, 9:35pm

Update: I can’t reproduce the issue. I have the i7-1165G7 CPU myself. My temps aren’t going over 40-45 at idle, even with a bunch of Edge tabs open. In fact, I had to run Cinebench for several minutes before HWInfo registered any thermal throttling. Even then, it still says my max temp was 88 C, which is perfectly within reason in this scenario (also my room is a couple degrees under 72 F, so it feels a little chilly right now). I did all of this with my connected monitor set to 144 hz.

You can do this too; Cinebench is free on the Microsoft store, so it should be real quick. Just hit the start button next to CPU (Multi Core) and watch your temps. By default it will run for at least 10 minutes, and your computer will try to focus resources on it. If you hit 100 C, you probably need to check your cooling system, and you should also click the Stop button to avoid the unecessary wear from the heat. My money’s on the thermal paste not being installed correctly, which was an issue on the first one or two batches if I remember correctly.

Nandor_Hulverscheidt · January 24, 2022, 10:43pm

@Sam_Murray Just curious, did you disable the Laptops internal monitor in your testing? Because I was specifically talking about a case where you run two active Monitors at different rates.

As I said, for OPs issue it was just a theory to try. I don’t have my own Framework yet, I would have of course done the testing myself if I could have.

Nandor_Hulverscheidt · January 24, 2022, 10:51pm

@jakob_wankmueller Two things I wanted to add as they’ve not been mentioned in this thread so far.

Checking what BIOS version you’re using and if maybe there’s a newer version with the changelog indicating it might help with your issue.
Fan control is currently not accessible to users as far as I know. There is a lot of recent development though around Framework’s embedded controller chip which might lead to such an option being available in the near future.

Sam_Murray · January 25, 2022, 12:31am

I did not. I’m also running the latest BIOS for what it’s worth, but I’ve never had temp issues before. I’m also on Windows 11. Now, I’m wondering a couple things:

What OS is OP using? Last time I tried it, using multiple disparate monitors on Linux wasn’t stable and bumped my CPU up to >80% just displaying a livestream on the second screen, along with a memory leak.
Does OP have the driver pack installed?

jakob_wankmueller · January 25, 2022, 9:36am

@Nandor_Hulverscheidt That could help. I set my refresh rate lower to test and it seemed to help a bit. But I might try what Sam suggested.
I did update my bios with the Framework Bios Release. That should update it to the newest version?
Hopefully the Fan Control happens soon. I think it would help a lot

@Sam_Murray I might try that today. Maybe also just run Cinebench with only the laptop’s scree to see how the temps are.
Im running Win 10 Pro. Driver Pack is installed and BIOS should be up to date.

My thermal compound arrived today so I will start with replacing that and see if that makes a difference. Starting from that I am going to test the suggested steps.

jakob_wankmueller · January 25, 2022, 11:25am

So I just ran Cinebench R23 and received some questioning results. I turned my internal monitor off and let it run only on my 144hz monitor. I had a video running in firefox and some tabs were open. I also had HWInfo running to record everything. I also have my thermal compound replaced now.

I expected heat and fan spinning but, as you see in the picture below, I had a diffrent result. It seemed to be quite normal and regulated for the 10 minutes it ran.

Because I ticked a wrong box and didn’t get my score I ran another test to get it.

Again I expected the fans to ramp up and the temps to go up, but over the whole test it seemed to be quite chill.
I started the benchmark at the 0004 mark and it ended 10 minutes later at ~0014.

I was in the kitchen for the remaining 10 minutes and while cinebench was done my
temps went all over the place. It kind of seems to be a fan curve issue… But maybe someone else can interpret my data better.
I can also share the whole logs if neccessary.

Sam_Murray · January 28, 2022, 2:13am

These results are really odd, your CPU should be getting hammered. I forgot to mention this, but you should run the test plugged in, with your power plan set to at least “balanced.”

If you did all that then it almost looks to me like you ran the test in Single Core mode. My CPU hit 88 on Multi Core and it doesn’t even seem to have the issue you’re describing; something is a little wrong here. Did you happen to see your score before you closed Cinebench?

The score I have saved for my laptop is a little over 4800, which is a ballpark estimate of what you should be getting.

edit: even in single core (plugged in, Balanced power mode) my CPU is hitting 80. I don’t know what’s going on unless your laptop wasn’t plugged into power.

jakob_wankmueller · January 31, 2022, 11:23am

It was plugged in and I had it on performance mode. And also used Multi Core, but I noticed that it was in the 10 minutes throttling mode. When running that there is no score.
Afterwards I tried testing again and at first I got a result of 3500 and after asking in another thread someone suggested to disable Windows Updater, after that I got a score of 5500.
So it seems that fixed the score. But I am still confused about the results I had before.

Is this crazy fluctuation even normal?

The much lower temps could be because I switched the thermal paste with a better one. But 20 C less seems quite high tbh… |