Hello,
I’m new to Framework and so my apologies if my questions are lame.
I came here because the Desktop is almost exactly the product I’m after. I say almost because the only thing I’d like additionally is a full implementation USB4 v2 80Gbps. I guess that’s an AMD and ASMedia issue rather than Framework. So, my question here is whether its likely that future releases of this form-factor will include higher speed IO interfaces for external add ons like an eGPU?
Who manufactures the motherboard for Framework?
I read that Framework is focused on repairability but note that the Desktop is pretty much a soldered product making it less repairable and upgradeable (bar fans and ports of course). Is that right or have I misunderstood?
Speaking of fans, is there any data on runtime temps and noise with respect to the three fan options?
I note a 1 yr limited warranty. What about drivers and firmware; how long after warranty will these be maintained?
I read that Framework is focused on repairability but note that the Desktop is pretty much a soldered product making it less repairable and upgradeable (bar fans and ports of course). Is that right or have I misunderstood?
Yes that’s right, the framework desktop combines the repairability of a laptop, with the portability of a desktop.
I note a 1 yr limited warranty. What about drivers and firmware; how long after warranty will these be maintained?
You’re lucky if serious bugs that appear at launch ever get fixed. It may take years.
Speaking of fans, is there any data on runtime temps and noise with respect to the three fan options?
The desktop is not for sale yet, so noone in the community will have any.
Not sure if they’ve said. But I feel like Quanta is who I recall manufactures FW’s laptops (see next post). Been awhile, people don’t usually seem to ask or care.
Thanks @Destroya. Yes, noise levels are there, I missed them on my first read. Should I take the airflow data as a proxy for cooling effect? The Cool Master have a max figure airflow figure, not the Noctua; is this because these figures were provided by the manufacturers?
It is possible, but a lot of that will depend on what options are available down the road from the various chip makers. FW never gives specifics about long-term plans. In fact, they pretty much don’t release specifics until things are pretty much ready.
It is correct that the CPU and RAM are soldered. Unfortunately, this is a restriction from AMD and just technical limitations right now due to the 256 bit memory bus and the speeds AMD wants the RAM to run at. FW really liked this processor and saw potential for it, so they decided to build a computer around it, even though they would have to forego some of the upgrade-ability they normally strive for.
I think most folks feel Framework could stand to improve their firmware/BIOS update quantity and quality. Some have had more issues than others, and I think GhostLegion is one of the folks who are fully disillusioned at this point. Understandably so. I’m one of the lucky ones who has had no real issues, but I still would love to see Framework improve in this area. That said, technically they continue to provide software/firmware support well past the warranty period. But they’ve also dropped the ball in some cases. I think they are trying and have good intentions. But I think there is not only room, but a need for improvement.
I made the decision yesterday. I’m selling my FW13. I’m getting off this ride, I’ve been patient, I’ve been fair and I’ve gotten very little for my troubles.
EDIT: The things people seem to be calling out now, I literally predicted as problems years ago and I got called a bully and a troll. It sucks to feel like I’m being proven right in slow motion. I would’ve preferred being wrong.
Meh, it’s not on you at all. I appreciate the sentiment though! Really it’s ok, I get reminded of the frustration every time I use the machine so I’ll be glad when it’s gone.
I hope you enjoy whatever laptop you do get, Framework or otherwise.
Framework desktop has the repairability of most other laptops, has lower repairability than other desktops, has lower repairability than other framework laptops. That’s not “combines the repairability of a laptop”
My bottom line is at least socketed storage, that most non-Apple laptops and desktops still have. Not just for upgradability, but also for data recovery in case of your computer suddenly breaks down.
AMD’s chip can not deal with anything but soldered memory with the shorted possible signal lines. Hopefully they just didn’t have time to work through the issue for this generation & future ones will be able to handle LPCAMM2 modules at full speed.
And it seems one of the major points of the FW Desktop was that it offered a chance to partner with AMD to create a system using this particular CPU. Likely to build a stronger FW / AMD partnership, since FW needs AMD for their FWL16 dGPU modules (Nvidia seems to not be an option).
“To enable the massive 256GB/s memory bandwidth that Ryzen AI Max delivers, the LPDDR5x is soldered,” writes Framework CEO Nirav Patel in a post about today’s announcements. “We spent months working with AMD to explore ways around this but ultimately determined that it wasn’t technically feasible to land modular memory at high throughput with the 256-bit memory bus. Because the memory is non-upgradeable, we’re being deliberate in making memory pricing more reasonable than you might find with other brands.”
Patel notes that Framework “leveraged all of the key PC standards everywhere we could.” That starts with a mini ITX board that uses standard ATX headers so it can fit into any PC case. The system’s 400 W power supply is based on the established Flex ATX standard, and its 120 mm fans (made in cooperation with Cooler Master and Noctua) can be swapped out for any other fan of the same size.
In addition to what MJ1 said above, Nirav also said that they considered the chip for the FW 16, but it just didn’t make sense. But they thought the chip had so much potential, they just wanted to make something with it, so they decided to make a mini desktop around it.