I mean, if they go over 699 USD the FW13 is cannibalizing it for sure.
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US pre-orders will be delayed for now: Framework :fedora: :ubuntu:: "We’re delaying opening pre-orders for Framework L…" - Fosstodon
Sorry to our friends from the US. But then again, more stock for the rest of us.
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This forum is not the place for political discussions. Messages removed.
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I hope this all gets sorted out, for selfish reasons, because I was excited for the FW 12, lol. But I can’t imagine cutting off the US market from sales will do anything to help Framework’s bottom line. So I hope this all gets sorted out for their sake as well.
I’m still looking forward to finding out specs and pricing details tomorrow.
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I read it as just a delay until they can offer prices with some degree of certainty to US customers. Just too early and risky to commit to final prices at this point I would assume.
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@sudothelinuxwizard Yes, Intel is THAT terrible. I have an i7-11850 in my work notebook, and while the power is decent, the amount of heat, even in idle, is terrible. The exhaust is like a jet engine, even on a freshly installed OS. And no, it doesn’t matter whether it’s Windows or Linux. The CPU doesn’t go below 83°C AT IDLE, and I tried everything except liquid metal. 12th gen i7’s and i9’s in colleagues’ notebooks are even worse. P-cores v E-cores? Possibly nice for administrative work and LIGHT web browsing, but absolutely terrible when you need predictable performance in virtualisation or any other task. 13gen aren’t much better, just more expensive. All have unpredictable storage performance even with NVMe SSD’s.
For comparison I also have multiple 10th an 11th gen i5’s private computers and they barely get hot no matter what I throw at them, most of the time around 52°C and idling fans, if at all running. And the raw performance per core is not much lower.
Around Christmas I got an FW16 (with the LOWEST CPU and without the dedicated GPU) for my son to replace his broken i7-6700. It has around twice the performance, Fedora was installed in 28 seconds from the start of ISO boot (from USB3 SSD), and even when training a self-hosted LLM it doesn’t even max out the fans.
Yes and again, Intel is THAT atrociously worse.
And regarding sales to the US: since they may be difficult to sell in the US with tariffs, they will most likely happily sell to the rest of the world; the goal would probably be to sell as quickly as they are able to assemble and pack up. Storage space costs money, too, and you don’t want a huge stockpile of computers in the storage that don’t get any newer and more modern with passing time.
Even before tariffs, computers in Europe cost more than in America thanks to our local taxes. I’m not sure, if you even understand how cheap gadgets have been in Us previously.
Of course, they will continue selling in US, price will just even out in comparison.
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Sounds like poor cooling systems, my dad’s work has Precisions with Intel chips and they’ve never had this problem.
Also, of course a 7840HS from 2023 is gonna beat a 6700 from 2015 lol.
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Yeah, I do. Although including taxes (which are aren’t included in the listed price over at NA apparently), I’m not sure how big the difference really is.
My guess for Germany (incl. 19% VAT) is:
549 - 599 for i3
599 - 649 for i5
That would be a little on the steep side, but I guess it just about fits in my budget. Above 699 would make it DOA for me, because might as well save up a bit more and a get a 7640U FW13.
Yeah, but the 2 in 1 with 360° Hinge, Touchscreen and included Stylus also ads some value. You don’t have any of that on the FW13.
That is a value add, but not enough to make up for the massive drop in performance, at least in my opinion. Also, FYI the stylus is sold separately.
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I use the Original FW13 with i5-1135g7. And I can play GTA5 at somewhat reduced settings pretty well. Also light video edditing is no problem. The performance in Cinebench R23 Multi is abou 5000 according to Notebookcheck. The i5-1335U has about 9000.
I meant the performance drop compared to 7640U.
My guess is € 700 to € 750 for entry levelFW12, with FW13 cheapest being around € 1.000 right now.
That’s still 25 to 30% cheaper while bringing a ton of nice features for a completely different use case. People who need power won’t find it with the FW12.
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And dual channel memory and full sized ssd support XD. But no 360 hinge or touchscreen so win some loose some. I do hope the 12 at least gets usb4 though.
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Welp, looks like I was far to optimistic. Starts at 569 euros for the i3 version and 739 for the i5 version. Seems rather steep to me, but we’ll see how it goes. Pricing for the styli is unavailable for now.
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Are those the DIY or prebuilt prices?
I’m in the US, so I don’t see any pricing of any kind yet. 
DIY, so realistically, 650 euros at least for the i3 version and 800 for the i5. Gosh darn it man!
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