Request: Review of Framework Laptop 16 Keyboard Layouts

As it was pointed out @Brunoais

and also the 3 key is missing the £ symbol in the alt gr state

Doesn’t the FW16 use QMK for setting the keymapping?
I would rather see some alternate key layouts (e.g. ortholinear).

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It does. And their QMK firmware is already public on their github. But of course note that work is still being done on it.

That is what Tomas Barreira mentioned :slightly_smiling_face:. I’ll quote here:

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This is the hard part about doing keyboard layouts! There are very rarely formal standards for the layout definition, so we followed what Microsoft defined for Windows here: Belgian (Period) Keyboard - Globalization | Microsoft Learn

This one does have those two symbols, but as you note, not all keyboard makers use them, and the Wikipedia article for Belgian keyboards doesn’t have them either…

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That Microsoft documentation shows the layout as defined in software. That’s often very different from what is intended to be printed on the physical keyboard.

Often, especially on the AltGr layer, there’s loads of extra superfluous stuff that’s not usually printed on keys.

For example, here’s the English International keyboard, as implemented in Windows: United States-International - Keyboard Layout Info

As you can see, it’s much busier than the physical keyboard labelling, which usually only has a single AltGr position labelled — AltGr + 5 for the euro symbol.

For another example of this phenomenon, see the new French keyboard layout: French (Standard, AZERTY) - Keyboard Layout Info

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Re: International English / Windows v3

Should the € symbol remain the only Alt-Gr symbol shown on the international US English keyboard? Not all its Alt-Gr characters are Europe oriented. (2560×1600, 180°, ½ cup, 8ft², Ch2 §3 ¶2, etc).

Historically, € required Unicode support (unlike many other Alt-Gr keys in Latin-1). Around the turn of the century, highlighting € was a way to advertise new Unicode support on computers, but that is not a reason to make € special now.

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Wow, I am offended… :smiley: No Turkish-Q keyboard request?
I would have assumed some one would have already requested it but no-one has…


I am waiting patiently to order the 16" version with the Turkish Q version…

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We are working at a Pan-EU-NGO and have struggled with all those keyboard layouts out there. Usually we pick the Swiss layout, since it has French and German umlauts-layout combined. Unfortunately Spanish Punctuation and Slavic (and Nordic) letters are missing. So there is one that we would really like to have: it’s called EurKEY (by Steffen Bruentjen)

source: https://eurkey.steffen.bruentjen.eu/layout.html

On English:

Why are there symbols for backspace, enter, but words for tab, capslock and shift?

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Wow, that’s a great point! I made a table to show the differences and inconsistencies between the legends of each keyboard layout.

Text = 🇹
Symbol = :red_square:

Name Tab Backspace Enter/Return Left Shift Right Shift Caps lock
Belgian :red_square: :red_square: :red_square: :red_square: :red_square: :red_square:
Danish :red_square: :red_square: :red_square: :red_square: :red_square: 🇹
French Canadian (updated) 🇹 🇹 🇹 🇹 🇹 :red_square:
French :red_square: :red_square: :red_square: :red_square: :red_square: :red_square:
German :red_square: :red_square: :red_square: :red_square: :red_square: :red_square:
Hungarian :red_square: :red_square: :red_square: :red_square: :red_square: 🇹
International English / Linux V2 🇹 🇹 🇹 🇹 🇹 🇹
Italian :red_square: :red_square: :red_square: :red_square: :red_square: :red_square:
Japanese 🇹 🇹 🇹 🇹 🇹 🇹
Korean 🇹 🇹 🇹 🇹 🇹 🇹
Name Tab Backspace Enter/Return Left Shift Right Shift Caps lock
Latin American Spanish :red_square: :red_square: :red_square: :red_square: :red_square: 🇹
Norweigian :red_square: :red_square: :red_square: :red_square: :red_square: 🇹
Portuguese (updated) :red_square: :red_square: :red_square: :red_square: :red_square: 🇹
Slovak :red_square: :red_square: :red_square: :red_square: :red_square: 🇹
Slovenian :red_square: :red_square: :red_square: :red_square: :red_square: 🇹
Spanish (updated) 🇹 🇹 🇹 🇹 🇹 🇹
Sweden :red_square: :red_square: :red_square: :red_square: :red_square: 🇹
Swiss (updated) :red_square: :red_square: :red_square: :red_square: :red_square: 🇹
Traditional Chinese 🇹 🇹 🇹 🇹 🇹 🇹
Tai :red_square: :red_square: 🇹 :red_square: :red_square: 🇹
Name Tab Backspace Enter/Return Left Shift Right Shift Caps lock
UK English :red_square: :red_square: :red_square: :red_square: :red_square: 🇹
US English (RGB) (updated) 🇹 :red_square: :red_square: 🇹 🇹 🇹
US English (Linux V2) 🇹 :red_square: :red_square: 🇹 🇹 🇹
US English 🇹 :red_square: :red_square: 🇹 🇹 🇹
International English / Windows v3 🇹 🇹 🇹 🇹 🇹 🇹
Name Tab Backspace Enter/Return Left Shift Right Shift Caps lock

Please let me know if I missed a legend or got one wrong.


Of all the layouts, I find it interesting that the US English has left side text, right side symbol (except for the right shift).

Just wondering, was this a design choice, or it just happened as the layouts were designed independently?

On the FW13, the legends are all text, but I do find the symbols a welcome change. :slight_smile:

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Interesting. Perhaps some countries just use symbols more often, instead of text on their keyboards, or vice versa. With so many countries and presumably so many different people with a say in what layouts will be used, inconsistency probably should be expected. It only matters what is normal for a particular region.

Error on US English (RGB). It has text for right shift.

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Thanks for the catch! I knew I would miss something with all the different layouts :sweat_smile:

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Personally, I would love to see a second Super/Win key on the bottom row. A ‘Menu’ key would be alright as well, given that it could be re-bound all the same. I’m also curious if the empty space above the left & right arrow keys could be used, either to create separate Home/End keys or to just give more surface area/compaction to left & right like we see on the FW13 keyboard.

Regarding US Layouts

I would like to 2nd the vote for using the Framework logo rather than the text “super”

As a user I have no idea what the Fn-12 key (currently with framework logo) would do, and thus would never click it.
Uncommon on modern keyboards, it may be worth adding the scroll lock key back onto the Linux layout given it’s use case in TTY sessions.

I 2nd the idea for relegating the numlock to a fn key and giving that key an additional function.

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Looks like your quote got messed up. Seems it should be for this post by Captain_Pumpkinhead, rather than Matt_Hartley.

Since the Framework-16 input modules will be using QMK firmware, any key can be assigned to a fn key, which are generally known as layer keys. So the numlock key could toggle any layer you wish to create. QMK offers a huge amount of options. I suspect a lot of people will be at a loss when they explore everything you can do.

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I’m not sure how you caught that, but you’re right! I’ve fixed it, thanks Sherlock :slight_smile:

I’m also glad to hear there will be plenty of room for customization, I’m sure I’ll delve deeper into that once I get one in-hand.

It just didn’t sound like Matt_Hartley :smile:

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About the physical layout in general: it definitely has too few dedicated keys. This forces us to do too much switching around, hurting productivity a lot.
Especially dedicated pg up/dn keys, and home/end are missing - there is enough space for them on the keyboard. Also “insert” and “print” are important, although to a lesser degree.

Regarding the “International English” layout: I believe this is supposed to be the layout commonly called “US International”? I think it makes sense to stick to these standard names. The layout “International English / Linux V2” is good, except for some missing dedicated keys.

I like the “super” label on the super key - it can’t get any clearer. Love to not have a Windows logo there, I would definitely buy this design as is. I don’t need a Framework (cog) icon here, prefer just the “super” label. After all, it is the “super” key.

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What Khalid said, also for the US version, can we please have text for the enter and backspace keys instead of the symbols? Looks much cleaner.

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