Request: Review of Framework Laptop 16 Keyboard Layouts

Slovenian looks fine to me; you can probably rename it to Slovenian/Croatian, since both languages use the same layout.

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The Slovenian is maybe more a Croatian then a Slovenian.
They both share the letters, but Croatian alphabet has Ć and Đ officially in it, while Slovenian doesn’t.
Slovene alphabet - Wikipedia for Slovenian
Gaj's Latin alphabet - Wikipedia for Croatian

Keyboard layout is fine. I have a Logitech keyboard with Croatian layout that also has International English signs on Č, Ć, Ž, Š and Đ signs (and on , . -) which is really nice if you want to use English layout also.

All in all it’s ok and you can market it as Slovenian/Croatian

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Yeah, but Slovenian keyboard layout is exactly the same as Croatian one (well, at least the layout that everybody uses; about 15 years ago there was an official standard passed [SIST-1014] that defines a different layout, but nothing ever implemented it – it’s not even available in software).

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The new French layout seems a bit odd at first but imo it looks better designed and it’s a good idea to embrace change.
On the other hand it would be good to still offer the old one at least a marketplace item for people that can’t live without it

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Personally, I’m curious if it’d be practical to sell keycaps separately on the marketplace. For one, keycaps can wear over time to the point that they warrant replacement. For two, I think it might be a lot cheaper to sell Super keycaps individually rather than create a Linux version of every single language/layout. For three, fans of alternative layouts such as Dvorak and Colemak might be content with being provided the necessary keycaps to rearrange their boards on their own (e.g. bumped U & H keys and flat F & J keys for Dvorak) rather than having dedicated alt layout modules.

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Besides what @Antonio_Fernandes and @Tomas_Barreira mentioned:

  1. the menu key is missing between alt gr and ctrl.
  2. Print screen (doubled as F11) is usually Prt Sc.
  3. The SYSRQ key is missing. It’s usually overlayed with Prt Sc

I also have other elements to point out but they are not about the layout. Where should I write them?

E.g.

  1. Use extra size of the 16’’ for larger arrow keys
  2. No button to turn screen off
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I never had that on my keyboard. Also, alt gr+5 prints ½ for me.

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I actually didn’t mention the Bépo layout in my previous message: Along with the certification of the new Azerty (NF Z71-300), designed to bring significant improvements to the old Azerty while requiring a minor learning effort to its current users, the French authorities have also standardized the Bépo layout, which is infinitely more ergonomic than Azerty layouts, but imposes a significant learning effort for current Azerty users.

But since I read that the current versions of Windows do not yet support the new Azerty standard (NF Z71-300) by default, I guess that Framework has no choice but to offer at least an ISO keyboard with the old Azerty layout and a Windows key?
Perhaps it would be relevant to offer, in parallel, a new Azerty (NF Z71-300) ISO keyboard with a super key with a Framework logo?

If in my previous message, I did not mention the French ergonomic layouts, such as the Bépo and its many variants or the Optimot, it is because I think that the public interested in the use of these latter is very probably also interested in using an ortholinear or ergonomic keyboard. Myself, I want to learn Optimot by adopting at the same time an ortholinear or ergonomic keyboard:


I therefore consider it more appropriate to offer an ortholinear or ergonomic keyboard with blank keys (such as the ISO and ANSI keyboards already offered with blank keys), which would satisfy most users of ergonomic layouts in all languages and would represent a strong marketing argument for the Framework Laptop 16, since it would be the first laptop of this size to officially offer this option. I would certainly be enthusiastic about the availability of ortholinear or ergonomic keyboards engraved in Optimot or Bépo, but I doubt that these options will be profitable for Framework.

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Looks good!

It would be great to have option both for the “old” classic layout and for the new standardised layout. The latter hasn’t been adopted yet by any major manufacturer, but is an excellent piece of work and would be great to have. It keeps everything’s that is familiar with the classic layout but improves it in many many respects.

Other than that, I think it is well done. Some extra comments:

The “PRT SCR” is weird to keep in English. In French, it would be “Impression Écran”. My Thinkpad has it abbreviated as “ImpÉc”, it could be this or possibly “IMP ÉCR” but maybe it would be worth looking at what other manufacturers are doing. Otherwise, all the function keys are doing icons, so this could also have an icon (for instance a camera visor with corner guides).

Also, why the Windows key and not a Framework key? And if you want a Windows key, then it should be the Windows 11 / Microsoft glyph, which is four squares not in perspective. What you have here seems to be Windows 8/10 logo?

I also wonder why ⬉ but “fin” but it seems that this inconsistency is quite standard? I feel it is weird next to the left arrow. Alternative could be “orig” (short for “origine”) or “déb” (short for “début“).

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U+2399 PRINT SCREEN SYMBOL : ⎙

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This I would interpret as just “Print”. Historically that might be what the key was about, but now it is about screenshots — so looking at screenshot icons might turn out to be more relevant?

Interesting. I’d never heard of Optimot. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

The CC BY‑NC‑SA license under which the layout is made available is very unfortunate.

This license prohibits commercial use, so selling a keyboard with the layout printed on it would be prohibited (without special consent from the original author). It also means commercial operating systems can’t include the layout.

This is notably in contrast to the likes of Colemak, which is released as public domain. And Bépo, which has a more liberal CC license. (Bépo also got published as a national standard, implementations of which are not subject to any licensing restrictions. It was this national standard version which got included in Windows, not the CC-licensed Bépo.fr version.)

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US English (RGB)
(UPDATED)

ID2206--keyboard-US-eng-rgb-V7

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Swiss
(UPDATED)

ID2206--keyboard-swiss-white-backlight-V3

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Spanish
(UPDATED)

ID2206--keyboard-spanish-white-backlight-V3

Portuguese
(UPDATED)

ID2206--keyboard-portuguese-white-backlight-V3

International English / Windows v3

ID2206--keyboard-int-eng-white-backlight-v3

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French Canadian
(UPDATED)

ID2206--keyboard-french-canadian-white-backlight-V3

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This looks more normal to me.
My only note is for the bottom-right:
it looks like there’s no way to insert é.
The ◌́ should be moved to right side of the key.

I’m not sure what’s supposed to be above the ., but it’s fine.

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