[RESPONDED] AMD or Intel for second Framework

Framework Laptop 13 Linux
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I bough my first Framework more than 1 year ago (Apr 2022), I’ve been quite happy with it until my wife stole it from me and now I need a new laptop.

I know my next laptop will be another framework (13", I’m not interested in the 16"), I’m thinking on going to the AMD one, but I’m a bit worried about a couple of things.

1- I’m a Linux user and everything works perfectly, should I count with the same perfect track record on the AMD one?

2- I have a monitor with USB-C that works as a docking station, so when I sit on my desk, I connect one single cable and that charges my laptop, sends the video to the monitor and connects all my devices (ethernet, usb speakers, headset, keyboard, mouse and a usb hub where I connect usb pens or stuff)

This is extremely convenient. With the AMD version having some limitations on the USB ports (not being Thunderbolt, not having USB4 in all ports), will I be able to use my setup?

I really want to confirm this 2 points before I place my order.

Thanks.

2

  1. Due to the relatively new AMD hardware, you need an up to date kernel and there might be some issues at first. I expect most of these issues will be resolved with Kernel 6.6 and future updates. Otherwise AMD usually works very well on Linux (as well as Intel, if not better). I see no problem. If you order now, most issues will probably have been fixed when it will be delivered to you. (Assuming you use a Linux distribution that ships up-to-date kernels.)

  2. That should work fine, assuming you connect the display preferably to one of the USB 4 ports (the back ones). However there can be always incompatibilities between the Laptop and certain devices, so it’s hard to give guarantees, especially as you haven’t said which docking station you want to use.

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Thanks for the very fast response.

1- For many years I’ve not used intel on desktops, AMDs work perfectly for me, but if I buy this laptop as an AMD, it’s going to be my first laptop, that’s why I’m a bit cautious.

2- You asked for he docking station, the monitor PHILIPS 40B1U5600-40 works as a docking station, it’s working perfectly in my current framework (with linux) and my work laptop (a dell with windows). Connected to the monitor I have a usb hub with all the things I mentioned and some more (ethernet, speakers, headphones, microphone, webcam).

The monitor provides power, usb hub and video over the same usb-c cable.

As I said, I will buy a framework, I’m just not sure if a AMD or Intel, once I’m sure, I will place my order.

Thanks again.

4

A third question I didn’t ask before.

In my current framework I have 2 USB-C at the back (where I either connect the power or the docking station) and a HDMI at the front (for when I’m not home and need to connect to a display).

On AMD the front ports being USB3 I assume it doesn’t support HDMI, or does it? if it does, will it have bandwidth for 4k 60hz?

From a google search I think it won’t as HDMI will need 18Gbps, and USB3 only has 5Gbps.

I confess I’m always inclined to choose AMD over intel, but this USB situation is the biggest limitation to my decision at the moment.

Thanks again for your patience.

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The frontal right port does support DP (hdmi), but I don’t know fast the DP connection is there.

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The front right one does.

Unsure. As far as I can see, Framework doesn’t publish the speed of the DP mode of the ports. The Intel models probably have faster DP modes, but a single 4K screen is probably not a problem at just 60Hz. That’s pretty standard.

The USB speed is not necessarily related to the DP speed. It’s a completely different type of data going over the same connector.

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Welcome to the community, @Luis_Cunha!
Nothing to add, everything was addressed by @Jonathan_Haas

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I have 2 new questions, one still related to the USB situation. I think this are my last 2 questions.

As far as I understand, video over USB is limited to USB speeds (it’s travelling within the limit of the medium), to be frank until I see any documentation showing otherwise I will assume this, after buying the laptop if things don’t work is to late to change.

4k 60Hz need 12.54 Gbit/s
1440p 60Hz need 5.63 Gbit/s
1080p 60Hz need 3.20 Gbit/s

Just to be clear about the maths, raw 3840×2160×60×24 ~= 11.4 Gbit/s, it goes to 12.54 after the overheads.

USB3 is 5 Gbit/s so it doesn’t even support 1440p 60Hz (it does 1080p or 1440p 30Hz)

So Q1 is: Can the laptop be charged from the USB3 ports on the front? (this could be a work around as I wouldn’t need to use the back doors for charging)

If not, given that when I’m not at home I’ll need to connect the charger to one USB-C, I either put the HDMI on the back and loose the only USB-C, or I can only use 1080p.

This is a really bad limitation.

I really wanted to go for the AMD one, but given this limitation I don’t know that I can. :frowning:

My Q2 is not related to AMDvsIntel.

My current keyboard is International English, is there a picture of the layout of the US English?

Again, many thanks.

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Not with USB-C, unless we’re talking Thunderbolt or USB4, which your monitor would need to support to begin with. With non-TB/USB4 USB-C, interfaces are directly muxed onto USB-C high-speed pins for any given altmode, so DisplayPort packets will not be transported over USB3, but instead the USB-C cable will carry a direct DisplayPort connection. So, DisplayPort speed will not be limited by USB3 speed at the port, but by the speed of the DP interface that is electronically wired up to the port when you plug your monitor in.

I see no indication that Philips 40B1U5600-40 uses Thunderbolt, which means it is using the DisplayPort altmode (either 4-lane or 2-lane with USB3 on one half of the USB-C port) and the speed indeed will only be capped by the DisplayPort connection exposed onto the port by that altmode. Not that it’d matter if it were to use TB, since the USB4/TB speed cap is 40Gbps. Given that, you should be fine with any USB port that has “Display output” marked, so, all of them except number 2.

image
image1104×1281 117 KB

So, to sum up, there’s no indication that the limitation you’re talking about, exists, which means you should be fine with AMD! AMD is also my recommendation.

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Thanks for your answer, that diagram is really cool and also makes me more ease as ultimately I can use a front port for charging and release the back ports, that mostly solves the problem.
So AMD seams to be the way to go.
From the image I found this page:

So my last question, any images of International English vs US English?
(most likely I will go with International English again)

Once again, many thanks.

11

Framework specifies a USB 3.2 port with dp alt mode. Like it was said earlier in the thread, the dp signals seem to be separate from the USB, but they also do not say exactly which version of USB 3.2 it is, so with the new confusing USB naming scheme it is unclear what speed the port will support…

Screenshot 2023-11-20 at 8.55.53 PM
Screenshot 2023-11-20 at 8.55.53 PM1348×872 172 KB

If it’s USB 3.2 Gen 2x2, then it will be 20Gbps.

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I didn’t knew that, but still Gen 1 is 5Gbps, so it would be interesting to know what Gen of USB ports does this laptop have.

Even if it’s Gen 1, the fact that I can use those for charging ultimately solves the problem as I can free both the USB4s and that’s an acceptable compromise for me.

If it’s Gen 2x2 then there is absolutely no problem or limitation, I can use any port for anything as I don’t think I have any application that needs more than 20Gbps at the moment and I still have 2 USB4s if I ever need more than that.

Even though it’s no longer needed for my decision, does anyone knows the Gen of USB3 on the front ports?

Once again many thanks.

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There are images of the keyboards in the store, but to me the International and US English look pretty much the same, so I don’t know what would be the reason to go with one or the other :man_shrugging:

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That helped answering my question, although I was expecting more differences but… it is the way it is.

I compared both images and the differences are:

  • Euro key
  • Alt Gr in the US is just Alt
  • Some small difference in the lettering size and alignment

That being said, thanks everyone, I will be placing an order for my second framework most likely today :smiley:

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Hey, joining a bit late, butt just for extra confirmation, here’s the reply support have me a while back:

Hi Andrea,

Thank you for reaching out and for your patience, the International English layout more closely corresponds to the “United States - International” layout in Windows, meaning the right Alt is labeled as Alt Gr (Alternate Graphic) and there is a € sign printed on the 5 key to indicate that AltGr+5 will give that symbol.

Regards,
Framework Support

Enjoy your new framework! :wink:

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Hi :smiley:

I’m right now in a similar situation to you, trying to decide between Intel and AMD processors for a Linux framework 13.

By reading the comments I assumed you finally went with AMD, can you tell me how was you general experience and if you encountered any problems?

Thanks!

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I actually didn’t had the best experience but it was unrelated to being an AMD.

I my laptop came with a board that wasn’t working properly, because it wasn’t completely dead it took some time to actually conclude it was a hardware problem. Once that was determined I got a new MB.

Now I have thinks working, so the laptop is actually working fine.

Note, this is my second framework, my first was the original Intel and I gave it to my wife but it’s still working perfectly. A faulty could have happen with any brand, I think it was just bad luck.

That being said, if I hadn’t have this situation my answer would start now:

In terms of compatibility, I would as long as you have kernel 6.5 or more recent everything should work out of the box.

The firmware version should also not be a problem, as the new MBs already bring a more recent firmware that doesn’t have the problems with Linux the original ones had.

Be aware the number of supported memory modules is tiny. If you are going to buy framework memory that’s not a problem, if you intent on buying memory outside, that can be a problem.

Be also aware about the USB ports situation, they are not all the same, everything you need to know abut the USBs is here:

In summary, if the memory or the USB limitations are not a problem for you, the AMD seams to be an obvious option, otherwise there is the inter version.

As of my specific case, if I was to choose again (apart from the problem I had) I would still go for the AMD version.

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Thanks for your response!

I have two further questions about the USB ports:

  • Were you able to use your docking stations through the ports labelled 1 and 3? Can you charge the laptop through the dock station while using an external monitor?

  • I guess the limitations of the USB ports is related to the processor, if I were to replace the motherboard in the future with one that used an Intel processor, would this limitations change?

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Not the person you asked but it should work fine.

Although some docking stations (mainly some from CalDigit) may not work properly with two-monitor setups. This is because USB can either carry two separate display signals or it can carry a single signal that can control multiple displays, however AMD processors only support the latter, so docks that require the former (mainly CalDigit) are limited to a single monitor with AMD.

Yep. You can at any time change to an Intel based mainboard, or it’s possible that future AMD mainboards could also solve the limitations (either with future processors with improved USB4 capabilities or with a mainboard that has a USB4 controller independent of the CPU, although the controllers independent of the CPU tend to have worse performance/power consumption/behavior so I doubt that will be used).

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You already have a better response than what I would have said, still one detail you asked was not directly answered.

Yes, the laptop can charge on the same cable that connects everything.

My case, I have a monitor that acts as a docking station, so I only connect a single usb-c cable to the laptop, that cable carries video for the monitor, all the usb devices I have connected and charges the laptop.

I haven’t tested multiple external monitors as I only have one.