Standalone Framework 7840U Board Limitations

Community Support
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Single cable setup simply not functional

I started out using a Minisforum EM780 with an AMD Ryzen 7 7840U, 32GB RAM and a 1TB SSD. It was connected to Dell C2722DE display via a single USB C cable. The monitor provided up to 90W of power delivery, audio, network, webcam, multiple USB ports, and DisplayPort MST output, so it could drive a second monitor. All of this ran over a single cable.

My plan was to upgrade my Framework 13 mainboard and use the original AMD Ryzen 7 7840U board in a Cooler Master case as a drop-in replacement for the EM780. Unfortunately the limitations of the FrameWork AMD mainboard meant this was never going to work. I couldn’t get any video out over the USB C port: no FrameWork logo and no boot loader. I tried all four ports with the monitor, two different USB C hubs, and multiple cables. As far as I can tell power delivery and video output on the same port simply doesn’t work on this board.

Dual cable setup works with multiple limitations

The dual cable solution was only slightly better given all the limitations. I knew that the display wasn’t an option on port 2. I also learned through trial and error that the power delivery must come in on one side (left or right), and the USB C hub or dock must be connected to the other side (right or left). In the case of my monitor, I had to use a 100W USB C adapter. If I used anything less, the 90W PD of the monitor would win out and the mainboard wouldn’t output video any more.

A 100W USB C adapter connected to port 1 and my C2722DE connected to port 3 got my something like I had before. I wasn’t happy giving up 100W adapter though, when the monitor was already capable of providing perfectly good 90W PD.

For comparison

  • The Minisforum EM780 has two USB C ports. Two out of two ports work with PD, provide full video output, and provide full dock connectivity.
  • My employer provides a Thinkpad laptop with an AMD Ryzen 5 PRO 7530U with Radeon Graphics. It has two USB C ports. Two out of two ports work with PD, provide full video output, and provide full dock connectivity.
  • The FrameWork 13 AMD Ryzen 7 7840U mainboard has four USB C ports. Zero out of four ports support simultaneous PD and video output.

Next steps

I’m going back to the EM780 for now. Its USB C has been so reliable, I don’t think I’ve ever used the HDMI port.

FrameWork laptops weren’t just supposed to be upgradable and repairable, they were supposed to be reusable. A single cable setup has been fairly common for a few years now. I don’t understand why FrameWork didn’t feel it was worth implementing or testing this configuration with their boards. If a lack of mirroring the Framework boot logo is any indication, it’s likely the AI 300 boards have similar limitations.

Let me know if I missed anything, or if you’ve gotten a single cable setup to work with this board.

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I have an i5-1135G7 board, which also has this limitation in standalone mode.

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I just want to clarify, this entire post is solely about standalone mode, and not when it is in the laptop chassis? Because I have that board in the laptop form and I’m currently typing this with a single thunderbolt 4 cable doing power, audio, webcam, multiple USB ports, and displayport. If this is solely about standalone mode then I unfortunately can’t contribute to the thread because I haven’t bought the coolermaster case yet.

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Yes, this is only about standalone mode.

The only comparable problem I had with the board while it was in the laptop was that the FrameWork logo, boot loader, and LUKS password prompt were never mirrored on the external display. I always had to go through those on the laptop display. The workaround just involved opening the laptop. It didn’t require any extra hardware.

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At least in non standalone mode that works just fine on mine.

Frankly using the thing designed to be used standalone over something that can do it as a party trick does sound like the better idea. The point of standalone mode with the framework main boards is imo more so the boards can be reused an not that they are purchased just for that.

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Agreed, with the limitation that the BIOS and boot loader only appear on the built-in screen. The EM780 and Thinkpad mirror these on all attached screens.

I was attempting to use the 7840U mainboard in standalone mode, after I upgraded my laptop to an HX370 mainboard. I don’t consider reuse of FrameWork mainboards a party trick.

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Bios/firmware once again being one of frameworks biggest weakness.

Fair enough.

You know what I meant

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This really sucks. Its the most affordable and capable board available, and this happens to be the one thing I wanted to use it for to build my own project. Previously I had a 1280P that did this just fine, so I didnt anticipate this being a problem. Now Ive spent a small fortune and dedicated hundreds of hours to a project that wont work the way I want it to.

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I have actually contacted FW support about the bios output to only one display at a time.
They responded that there was nothing they can do about it. That functionally is contained in a binary blob they get from amd, so they cannot change it.
I talked to AMD about it, and guess what, the team that do that blob have no contact with end users, and no way for end users to raise feature requests!

So, my advice would be to take it up with AMD. Maybe if enough people do, they will eventually listen.

Regarding the PD problems. That is mostly controlled by the EC firmware, that is open source. I have my own EC code i use with my FW16 so I know a little about it.
Just mentioning it, because theoretically you could fix the EC code to behave how you wish it to.

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Ok I just want to clarify the situation here for the next person like me who comes along looking to operate a 7840U mainboard with a single cable to a portable monitor.

I bought a 7840U to setup my own version of a 3d printed laptop with a single cable to a 16” portable display. I did it with a 1280p mainboard with no issue. So power to mainboard then single cable to monitor.

Not sure if that is what OP is talking about exactly.

After talking to support, they confirmed the 7840U was never designed or declared to do this. They seemed surprised that the 1280P did. After reading other posts and playing around, the only way this works in a similar way is to use PD pass through from a monitor. So power the monitor with 100W PD (actually not sure what wattage my moniotr can handle yet) and then single cable to Framework mainboard (has to be port 1 or 3 I think). So power goes from monitor to mainboard and image goes the opposite direction mainboard to monitor. Obviously this wont work with battery only. for that you would also need HDMI connection.

Next I went searching for portable monitors with 100w pass through. None bar one 60hz screen (that is exspensive) ADVERTISE this feature. On further investigation I found Arzopa monitors do provide 60w pass through but it isnt widely advertised. Its on their blog, and you can find the info if you google it specifically.

I have a cheap monitor from Aliexpress that does 120hz.

https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/B0CXJ19MDR?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1

Id thought Id just try pass through, even though its not mentioned anywhere on the original listing. It works.

(My latest project is here for anyone interested (note thises pictures all have power from mainboard and hdmi): Framework Forever Case II by Greg Fromont | Download free STL model | Printables.com )

This is the only way it works currently. I assume it has to do with the single 3amp power delivery across the four ports, as stated on the 7040U ports capabilities page.

Largely I wish I bought an intel now, although they do run hot…

Anyway my next plan was to try a touchscreen version. I will be buying a battery powered version, and this will make any further of these limitations go away. (and yes you wont get boot loader/bios without using both pd and hdmi setup)… carry on…

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The mainboard works better with a single USBC cable when the standalone mode is off? That’s a bit counterintuitive

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Think the more impactful part is the presence of a battery.

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The single cable setup I referred to in the original post is very similar to the setup @Greg_Fromont was going for. The only difference is that I use an AC powered docking station with a 90W PD output builtin to the monitor rather than a PD powered portable monitor with a PD output. Power goes from monitor to mainboard and video goes from mainboard to monitor.

My employer’s AMD Thinkpad laptop outputs the BIOS and boot loader to multiple displays. The Minisforum EM780 also based on the AMD 7840U does too. The Framework laptop is the only AMD setup I’ve got that limits the BIOS and boot loader to the builtin display in clam shell mode: lid closed with an external display attached. I don’t believe this is a limitation of AMD.

It seems to be specific to the Framework BIOS. It’s like they only implemented a single display on the laptop and a single HDMI or DisplayPort output when the board is in standalone mode. They chose not to implement clam shell mode or support a single cable setup in their BIOS.

I’ve been running single cable setups for a while now, so I’ve got a lot of USB C dock hardware. None of it will work with Framework’s AMD boards in standalone mode without dedicating another port and display cable for video. It seems like such a waste for a mainboard with four USB C ports that’s intended to be reusable.

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