I tried out a HP 5.25v 3A 16W charger I found laying around the apartment and that works to hold the battery wherever it is. So it pumps enough in to keep the battery as is during idle and light use.
It will charge about 20% capacity in a hour when switched off. It’s small and light so will go in my laptop bag for out and about use. The main one will stay at home.
I set the max battery charge level at 90% of course.
The C5 plug have a safety ground prong, which the C6/7 lack.
Depend on applications the safety ground may be mandatory, hence it’s best to keep it than to not feature it.
I don’t think we need to talk about “depends on application” here. We have an 65-W USC-Power adapter and all major OEMs have two-prongs/C5 offers, either as default (e.g. MS Surface, Apple, ASUS, Fujitsu) or as an option (AKA Travel Adapter, any Smartphone charger, 80% of Aftermarket GaN USB-C Chargers).
Hence “it’s best to me” to design the power adapter from the start so that safety ground is not needed, like competitors do.
And yes, there is many alternatives out there and I own a couple of them. Above was just my feedback what Framework could do to improve “Ultrabook” experience in 2022, so that the community does not need to source somewhere else.
Anything grounded is better, it’s quite simple.
Dell. hp.
Apple do not provide a 3-prong plus by default, but they can accept one, and the metallic “nubbin” is electrically connected as ground. Even on the 10W USB charger. And if you buy your chargers in UK, all of them are grounded.
Lenovo make cheap ****. Asus closely. Microsoft surface is made by Samsung, who, frankly, don’t make a lot of things beside TV, memory, and smartphones.
And frankly, I have a Samsung PSCV360104A that not only feature a 3 prong, but a C14 “industrial” type. Ah, yes. It’s not “double insulated” because it know that it is tied to a metal-case display!
The charger is plastic cased, but screw the charger. As soon as it is connected to a metal-cased object (a.k.a. laptop), it have a metal case.
Yes, with double insulation you don’t need grounding to “be safe”, until you realize the (19.5V DC) is actually 10V AC with one prong being (+10V) and the other being (-10V). Yes, because without grounding, you don’t have a voltage reference.
Does that matter? no. But it does mean that if the case of the laptop is connected to the “electric ground”, you can get mild shock as the AC 10V attempt to use your body as a voltage reference. Which is why, as I often demonstrated, if you plug a Macbook into a 2-prong charger and rub the back of your hand gently on the metallic cover, you can feel the numb-inducing 50/60Hz AC hum.
See my post for details.
WHICH, ACCORDING TO REGULATIONS, MUST BE GROUNDED!
All desktop computers are grounded because they have a metallic chassis that the user can touch, but so do laptops!
Again. Yes, it won’t kill you, but it’s better to have one than not. Unless the outlet in your home is wired wrong, in which case, that’s a violation of national electric regulations.
I mean, yes, major OEMs have two-prong/C7 offers, but they also have 3-prong/C5 offers.
Which, if you are only going to make one, would go for the C5.
Yes, consumer electronics. Again, as I mentioned, I have (found) a “industrial” power supply tied to a “industrial” metal-case overhead display.
I should clarify, but, I think it’s understandable that I don’t, consider I consider that statement to be outrageous.
Earthed double insulation is the new fashion.
Lenovo’s adapters use the grounded cables as well. As far as I’m concerned, that’s the seal of approval right there.
Having come to Framework from the last, great Lenovo laptop, the T440p, I appreciate this design choice.
Only if you live in North America though. None of the international plugs are collapsable.
China and U.S. plugs (type A) are foldable. Other plugs (that don’t fold) is Type C, E/F, G and I. (Europe/old, Europe/Africa/MiddleEast/new, British and Austrialia).
And “foldable prongs” are only for the “duck bill”. Which, as I mentioned, have the grounding nubbin.
Genius, albeit proprietary. You can squeeze a regular C7 (two prong) plug inside, however. But I’m sure Apple won’t like that.
Edward,
Thanks for your posts on alternative chargers. I picked this one up and am using it now.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VHDSNNT?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
All is good. Much thanks.
Nick
You’re welcome. I use that one regularly.
It also is used to charge a MacBook Air, and a Chrome book.
The funny thing is that I have the Framework charger at my home work area and use it to charge headsets, phones, and tablets with USB-C connections.
The Frame.work computer is used when I am sitting on the couch, not near the work area.
I have tested this new charger outside the apartment and it does what is needed with minimal space taken up. Now I can take it on the road instead of my temporary solution which was an Amazon Fire tablet.
Much thanks, Nick
Lots of the reviews on Amazon mention that it gets very hot, which is concerning. Have you noticed that?
As long as it doesn’t thermal-shutdown, it should be fine.
The Nano 2 gets warm, for sure, but when it’s charging the Framework Laptop it doesn’t get alarmingly hot. Transistors are on a completely different scale of acceptable heat than the human hand, but I’ve never gotten burned by it, merely warmed. Like holding a cup of fresh tea that’s sat out for a couple minutes.
So my dell power brick (the built-in USB-C cable) bite the dust.
To Dell’s credit, the cable have a built-in LED at the connector end, which come at the cost of being non-removable.
Guess what – I’ll get one from framework!
Do you guys actually make money off that? Although $50 is quite a tag for a 60W power adapter. Usually they come around $40 or below
I’ve actually been working on something to do just that, feed it up to 40 volts at 3 amps (theoretical due to heat) and it will be able to negotiate PD and regulate it down to whatever is needed. I will more than likely just have pin headers broken out for people to create adapters for whatever niche connector and also have models with the standard DC jack.
What does the solar power port do? Is it USB PD?
Without it being USB PD, no, it cannot charge the Framework laptop.
Without USB PD negotiation, the Framework laptop can take 5V @ 3A, which is the highest capacity a “dumb” (non PD) charger can output. The Framework laptop cannot accept 12V at all, and will only accept 15V if a PD negotiation occurs first. If you fed it 12V or 15V without any PD negotiation you’d blow something or discover whether the USB ports have any sort of power protection (resettable fuse?)
The device needs to be a USB PD power supply in order to use voltages higher than 5V.
12V isn’t applied with USB PD 2.0/3.X (check the link).
I’m not an electrical engineer but USB applies 5V first, then PD negotiation occurs, then 9V, 15V, 20V etc. is applied once the power supply receives confirmation using the PD protocol that the end device will accept it. If you were to just apply any voltage other than 5V at the negotiation stage, who knows what the results would be…
USB-C have a complicated handshake process.
Basically, the moment you plug your charger in, your charger tells the computer the (different) voltages (and amperage) it can operate at, while the computer reports the voltages that it want. Then the computer will tell the power supply to start sending power to the line (and apparently there is mechanics to compensate for voltage drop along the line)
There might be inaccuracies above, but it’s quite advanced. You can even charge one laptop with another (via USB PD), and switch roles when one is plugged in (and the other is not)
So if you want to hook up a 12V source (be it battery, a industrial power supply, etc) you need at least some circuitry to tell the laptop that this is a 12V source and can supply (what amount of current)
My suggestion (of power pins) intend on bypass the USB section and feed power directly to the power circuit of the board, which takes the internal battery power (between 11.1 and 12.4V) and distribute it across the system, so as long as I can feed clean 12V to the pin the board will run. The idea is that because many industrial applications (monitor, robot controllers, phones, routers) use 12V as source, so it will be easier to integrate the motherboard (to a system) because I just need to find ways to feed it 12V and not worry about a unsightly USB-C brick dangling around.
It will, also, improve (quality of life) of users wishing to run the motherboard standalone, as they don’t need to occupy a USB-C port.
In theory, you can just feed 12V to the current battery connector, but because modern batteries have a management circuitry built in (that tells the board the temperature, calculate amount of charge left in it, sense current, etc) I don’t think it will work