The Upgradeable Mainboard

Framework Team Blog
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@Rune You commented that a laptop lasts for 3 years. As a software Architect, with 30+ years experience, I disagree. The last laptop I bought was in 2010, (if you don’t count that I pre-ordered this one), it is a MacBook Pro, made out of single piece of aircraft Aluminum. Yes, it is slow now, but I haven’t been doing as much with it lately. Still works fine. I’ve had to replace the keyboard, upgrade the RAM, replace the disk (yeah, it is one of the ‘old’ ones you could do that), and etc. Now, Assuming that they make the frame SOLID on this laptop, why can’t it last 11 years like my Mac? Sure, I might go through 1 or 2 keyboards, swap out the screen, motherboard even… And, well, upgrade everything.

I really like this design, the single thing this is linked to is USB-C, from what I can tell. If we move over to the 1TB/sec New standard (it isn’t here yet of course), then this machine will be outdated and not able to support that without upgrading the chassis which, actually, one could do…

My one concern is: The specs say that it has fan cooling to support 28w continuous use on the CPU, which sounds good, up to the point where they mention 60w turbo on the CPU. Um, isn’t that the problem Apple has had with their recent (since 2010) junk laptops? I have had two Mac Books for Work, and smoked the first one, and had it replaced due to being a burning hot CPU (100C on the CPU if I wasn’t uncommon), and even just leaving it sit driving 2 4K screens it was HOT. My current one is doing much better… with a forced air fan blowing on the bottom. Now, I use it mostly for e-mail/teams chat, because it lacks the power to do any real work (iti s a 2019, 16") Granted, I’m running a i7 8700K as my main work machine right now, and I tend to drive the machines to their limits.

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One question about the Motherboard… It has a M.2 socket, but it doesn’t say if it is a Gen4 x4 slot or not - I hope so, as I just bought on Pny XLR8 4 TB SSD for $629 on Amazon (would be a nice option for a ‘disk’ for the machine too, $370 less than the $999 one that is listed, but it does say it needs a heat sink, so I’m concerned about that, however, that is only if you are driving massive data into it for a longer period. I would assume that it is, because the above M.2 board came out in Dec 2020, and I’d assume you would be working with the latest MB designs at that time.

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I am confident it is Gen4 x4 because they’re offering the WD SN850 which is a Gen4 x4 SSD. I would be very surprised if they are offering such an expensive SSD that the system can’t even take full advantage of.

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Yep, that is correct. It is Gen4 x4.

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I realize this is quite a ways down the road, but when framework eventually offers new motherboards with say 12th gen intel chips, would you guys offer a trade-in/rebate for recycling the boards?

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Not a bad question… or maybe someone can 3D print a little server rack type dock and we can keep our old boards in and give them a purpose :stuck_out_tongue: (VM rack anyone?)

… Gen 12 with DDR5 and nvme version 2… going to make are current framework laptops seem so old :wink:

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While an interesting question, I would strongly recommend individual users who find themselves needing to upgrade consider flipping the boards or reusing them in other machines (e.g. an htpc) instead. Reduce, reuse first. Recycle is last for a reason.

Edit: That being said, maybe Framework could take it off your hands for a discount on a new board, then validate good function and flip it for a lower cost as a secondhand or refurb board. Depending on costs and volume it could end up being a profitable revenue stream…

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Maybe they could offer that for non-functional boards, but if the board still works then the Marketplace (when it launches) would serve to find a new home for it.

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Exactly. Like the last two posters mentioned, to reuse the material or resell the good used boards would play well into the sustainable ethos Framework is all about.

I’ve had at least one friend say they would absolutely buy one if they knew they could get a rebate for offering their old board back in the future.

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I’m looking for a way to have the motherboard in a 12v based mobile VERY flat format case. All I basically need to do it is info on the Battery interface connector, and the type of connector used.

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I see the possibility of an ATX/mATX “adapter board” that could accommodate the Framework mainboard.

2 of the USB 4 ports could be passed through for displays. Another (using a hub chip) could serve the usual array of ATX rear I/O ports. The 4th (using a second hub chip) could run to sockets to connect to the case front ports.

There could be an adapter on the board to adapt ATX power to the mainboard, another to convert the display output to HDMI or DP for the rear I/O, and another for the sound. There’s also the keyboard and touchpad connector which could be converted to USB ports maybe.

The only thing not exposed is PCIe.

I would hope with all the most expensive components located on the mainboard this would cost less than a regular ATX motherboard. But it’s an idea.

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All of these are valid points, with one note: PCIe is actually exposed via the NVMe slots.

But yeah, the overall sentiment is very true, the mainboard was actually designed with the vision of being easy to adapt to use outside of the standard laptop chassis.

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I will be updating the CPU on mine like any normal person, with a ZM-R6200c. :smiley:

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Of course. Or you can do the equivalent thing. When my CPU dies I’ll just stick to my great grandma’s recipe of baking my motherboard in the oven.

(For clarification because Poe’s law: sarcasm, don’t do this. Motherboards are generally not bread. Also my great grandma wasn’t a baker.)

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It works more often that it has any right to. Baking my friend’s 2080ti should NOT have worked…

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My opinion on the matter: If it’s dead and you have no GPU, it’s out of warranty, and you can’t afford a repair: sure, give it a shot. It won’t be worse than the Apple 3 “drop it six inches” malarkey.

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My dad had a Kaypro 4 that could be fixed with a car ride. I think it was a bad solder joint.

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For ARM, a relatively quick way of making a mainboard is to use a Raspberry Pi 4 compute module (which has a CPU and not much else) and then make a board that connects the compute module to the io ports on the motherboard. It would take up a bit more space than making a dedicated mainboard but the compute module is specifically designed to make certification easy.

There are a number of projects doing that. I ordered a CutiePi but there are a number of others doing much the same. Maybe CutiePi will be the first third party mainboard vendor for frame.work! :smile:

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I would like to point out to those talking about the reduce, reuse, recycle ethos, and speaking about needing info on the connector etc, staff have said a number of times that they are keen to see cyberdecks in the future from older main boards. If you’ve never heard of it, a cyber deck is effectively a NUC built into a mechanical keyboard chassis.

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To be fair, this isn’t the first time a motherboard is “upgradeable”.
Nobody know that the Dell XPS 9343 is the same as the 9350 as the 9360. They used identical chassis and layout and the only difference is the CPU, higher density (same dimension) batteries, and optional upgrades such as a 3K touchscreen and fingerprint sensor)
You could have purchased a Dell XPS 9343, upgrade the motherboard with a 9360 one, upgrade the battery, upgrade the original 2k non-touch to a 3k touch, and so on.

However, even the 9360 is basically outdated (although there is little reason to outdate such a simple&elegant&sufficiently adequate design), new XPS, just like any other computer, is soldered down and the only things you can replace is the SSD and the wireless card.
The XPS 9343/9350/9360 also have soldered RAM, which make the replacement slightly more costly.

This laptop sound like … it sound like incredible. I really wanted (it), however I do not really need a new laptop ATM.

Now. I have a few questions. I know that gen 10 Intel platform natively support Thunderbolt. And I have heard that Thunderbolt need certification and so on, which is why you currently list them as USB 4 with DP Alt with USB PD.
This is really weird, as it almost covers all the thunderbolt’s capabilities (beside the ability to act as a PCIe bridge), yet it is not thunderbolt.
Is the Thunderbolt hardware present on the current hardware, or do we have to upgrade our boards to have thunderbolt? What protocol does the motherboard connector use to connect to “external ports”? How are they connected to the system (e.g. all four motherboard connector connected to different ports on the PCIe Root Complex)? How will the displayport be handled?
how will the card reader be handled (e.g. card reader over USB or over PCIe)? How is the “external built-in harddrive” connected?

Will the m.2 slot support SATA protocol (for true dual-mode support) like the XPS 9360?

Having all four port acting as Thunderbolt sound too good to be true. Unless it’s true, which kind of justify the actually very premium pricetag – $1100 for a i7-1165G7 and 16GB RAM, display and chassis but with nothing else – can’t even boot or connect to wifi

They say that if I assemble it myself I save some money ($300?!), which instantly bring the budget down to a very acceptable level.

XPS 9360 feature a PCIe card reader. Premium as is, the module itself can be equally premium on a otherwise standard laptop.