Tradeoffs of Refurbed 11th gen vs. New 12th Gen?

It is and it isn’t. The initial issue is Intel’s fault although since it is a silicon-level bug. FW did implement a hardware fix to allow the RTC battery to charge off of the main battery as well as mains power. 11th gen RTC battery can only charge off of mains power. See here.


However, with 11th Gen Intel Core processors, Intel shared that there is a silicon bug where low voltage on the subsystem that the RTC battery powers can put the processor into a stuck state that needs to be manually reset

I think you are mistaken and the initial issue is the RTC voltage which is independent of the bug but is triggering it.

If it were universal to Intel 11th gen we would hear news of other manufactures with the issue/it would be news.

An RTC battery normally last 5-10 years (and more) not 2-4 weeks this is a massive downgrade and a huge shift in expectation.

The rechargeable RTC batterie has a finite number of cycles (with reduced capacity along the way) it will only get worse.

I have seen threads where the user had to replace the RTC as it was dead after a year of use.

Does the 12 gen have the same battery and thereby subject to the same problem?

Yes…eventually. With 12th gen, FW connected the RTC battery to the main battery. So long as the main battery has charge, the RTC battery will not run down and will not prompt this issue. If both batteries die then yes, you will run into the same problem.

Adding to the above - if my memory is correct, the 12th gen reset procedure does not require removal of the RTC battery, either.

Much thanks for the confirmation of what exactly is going on here with Framework’s design flaws.

Ideally I would go for the motherboard replacement of my 11th gen and go for the 12gen, but can’t justify the added expense.

I would also highly recommend against buying the 11th Gen Framework. I’ve had a similar experience to others with the mainboard RTC battery issue. Thirteen months after receiving the laptop (just outside of warranty, of course), it suddenly wouldn’t start without a charger regardless of battery level. A couple weeks later, I sat down at night class, pulled out my laptop, and discovered it was completely bricked, charger or not. It’s a worst case scenario, total bummer.

It took me a little bit to find out this is a known, recurring issue. I was able to get my laptop running again after resetting the mainboard, but a few days later I already need the charger to start the laptop again. My trust in this device as a reliable main laptop has evaporated.

This is the most expensive laptop I’ve ever bought by a significant margin, and having to babysit the battery like this has really spoiled the experience. I probably wouldn’t recommend buying any Framework device at this point, but would definitely caution against buying anything with the 11th Gen mainboard.

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@BraneGenius - if you’ve already gone through the steps to fully charge the RTC battery and still have issues, you may need to replace it - the RTC battery, that is.


If you haven’t sent a message to support, I would do so. Just because you are out of warranty does not mean that they will completely deny you any help, and there may be a solution they can offer such as a replacement RTC battery, or other troubleshooting solutions. They might say they can’t help you, but with this being a first gen product I have seen them make sure to take care of the customers who bought in to the 11th gen laptops.


@Azure Contacting support was actually my first instinct. Unfortunately, it was Framework support that informed me I was out of warranty:

Thanks for the update. After a review of the issue you have submitted, our system detected that your laptop is already out of the warranty period. You may purchase a mainboard through the Marketplace - Framework | Mainboard can check the link regarding our Warranty Policy. Here: Framework.

This was after they sent me a truncated version of the mainboard resetting procedure, which as sent did not work. Frankly, my support experience was a little disappointing.

I appreciate those who took the time to complain about this problem on the forums though, without them I would not have found the support I needed.

Also, thank you @lbkNhubert for the suggestion!

@BraneGenius Not a fellow Aussie, by any chance? Maybe your jurisdiction has a “reasonable lifetime of the product” clause like our consumer law does.

@Tinkererer_Belle I’m over in the states, so the only applicable clause is likely “caveat emptor”. :face_exhaling:

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It was a long shot, that is unfortunate though. I agree that it’s disappointing that they couldn’t offer you a better solution. I wish I had the answer to your problems, but I do not. Best of luck finding a solution, or an alternative.

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Finally I was out of town for a couple of weeks. Did not have the laptop with nor was it connected to a power source. Came back and it was dead. I was able to start it up by pulling it apart as told here and then it rebooted. Was afraid I had one expensive brick. The bare minimum for any laptop is that it starts up.

Is there any interest here in trying to get the 11th gen (fan) buyers together and seeing if there is strength in numbers? Just sayin’


Let me direct you to the relevant threads.

TL;DR: No, banding together will accomplish nothing. Reach out to support and see what they will do for you. If uninterested in that, a DIY solution is available but if it is goofed up, FW will not replace the board under warranty.


Sell it on Ebay. Move on.

Seriously? Sell a faulty laptop on eBay? That would make me as bad as Framework.

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@Nicholas_C_DeBord Then sell it here. I assure you there are users who would still purchase it.


Not quite, all is differently bad.
The laptop is fine if used regularly and that’s all you have to say to whom you sell it too.

So what is missing . . . Ah! Frameowrk didn’t know during manufacture and after the problem arose didn’t make it a highlight that it requires 6 to 9 hours of charging per week to keep the ML1220 from a radip decline.

Sad but not bad and you can improve by pre-emptively informing.

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We need to provide some clarity here as there continues to be some misinformation being communicated. An RTC battery with full capacity and a full charge can last up to 80 days without charge, so there is not a requirement for charge every week. If the battery has been deep cycled (drained to a very low voltage and then charged) a number of times and has reduced capacity, charging once a week for a few hours can help make sure it does not drop below required voltage. If the battery has been deep cycled too many times and the RTC battery is no longer holding significant voltage, customers are to contact Framework Support and they will provide a complimentary RTC battery replacement, regardless of warranty status, for 11th Gen Intel Core Framework Laptop purchases.