Yeah battery go boom!
As I mentioned before, some kind of adapter goes in the battery socket which leads to a larger battery that’s wired to it. That or can the boards be retrofitted to just take power for this from the main battery?
Well hoping for a fix or something that at least alleviates the issue somewhat.
Fingers crossed and all that! Let’s hope Framework let us know if they have any ideas soon.
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To add to what @Richard_Lees @Senhara and @2disbetter are saying, I have never had a problem with the RTC battery going low and requiring me to open up the laptop.
The longest it’s ever been off the charger is approximately 2 weeks. With the OS shut down, the battery dropped maybe 5-10% in that time. It started up fine and I put it on the charger.
When I put the OS in standby, after 2 days, the battery was completely depleted. I put it on the charger and it started as normal.
So it bears repeating that this issue does not affect everybody.
…and no, Framework doesn’t pay me, I’m not a paid shill.
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The time I was just describing (4 weeks not used and not plugged in) I pulled it out of my bag and turned it on - didn’t plug it in. No power on problem and no RTC problem that I noticed.
I guess that’s the main point I was trying to make about this issue – all units might have a fundamental problem with being off for an extended time but there is definitely some variation in how long the laptop needs to be unused before there is a problem, and the people who are having a serious problem if they leave it unused for only a few days are definitely not indicative of everyone’s experience.
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During some of my earlier testing when I started seeing the issue, I had actually measured the voltage when the laptop was off and not plugged in, off and plugged in, on and plugged in, and when it was on and not plugged in. I believe the laptop also charges the RTC battery while just being turned on, so that may not be a conclusive test.
In all the posts I’ve seen where people have the issue, they describe leaving the laptop without using it, so it seems like just not charging it for a month, while it would drain the RTC battery voltage some, if you use it for an hour or so during that time, it may not drain to the same levels.
Could this even be due to quality variations of the RTC batteries?
I never had any problems with mine, but I preventively exchanged it with another one I ordered online as a spare because it was slightly bulged right from the beginning.
The spare battery instead was completely plain to my eyes.
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After dealing with this issue for a couple of days now (and going back and forth with support), I’m glad to have found this thread. It seems odd to me that so many people are popping up with this issue at the same time, while having support say my “RTC battery was not the issue”.
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did you get a fix? what did they say was the issue?
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@Sven_Hiller where exactly did you get your extra battery? I’m finding ML1220s difficult to find at all, but willing to try this.
Unfortunately, no. I’ve gone through extensive troubleshooting with support.
Initially they told me to follow this article, and it fixed my issue… for about a week. The next time this happened (this past Saturday), I’ve been told multiple different things.
Initially they told me to update to 3.07 (assuming I was on 3.06)
I told them I’ve been on 3.07, and they then instructed me to bump my battery limit up to 100% (I’d kept it at 80%), and let it charge up for 24h.
I left it on the charger for ~18 hours (just shy of the 24h they’d told me - but this is my primary machine), and upon getting to work the next day had the same issue occur - no PD charging. I resolved it by trickle charging my setup (USB-A to C cable on the righthand side, PD charger on the left). I checked the RTC cell voltage, and it showed 3.10V (support had said “somewhere around 2.6 to 3 volts”), so I assume that’s fine.
This is the point where they said it “appears that your RTC battery was not the issue”. They told me to go through the Full Mainboard Reset process, which resulted in a functional system… but only when charging on the righthand side of it. My left IO ports will deliver power OUT, but now I can’t charge my laptop on that side - Dumb charging or otherwise.
They’re telling me to check the EMI shielding on that side, but I would be under the assumption that if it had been shorted out, I wouldn’t be able to use it for data or outboard charging.
Sorry for the lengthy post, but it seems like I’ve been in a weird moving goalpost situation, and it’s kinda nice to have everything typed out.
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It definitely sounds like you are facing a different issue if the RTC battery is charged, and you are still having trouble booting. I hope support is able to get you sorted, so best of luck.
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Please look at this post for more info on Laptop failing to start and possible causes and areas for further investigation
Another thought is… Is this problem ONLY on DIY Framework laptops?
Other post, sorry if it isn’t a link
" Power Button Fails to Start Laptop after a day or three switched off"
ok maybe it is 
Regards…
I’m currently asking Support to confirm if this is a design feature or a design flaw. I think that’s a fair question to ask. Buying into a new company and a new product is a trust thing as well as a risk.
I just want to know either way. If its a feature, then I can plan to work around it or sell it on.
If it’s a flaw then I think Framework have a responsibility to fix it or find a way to improve it (happy with either). I was sold this laptop on the idea of being fully repairable.
If after just three months, the first problem I have with it isn’t…well…
So if they cannot, then I think they need to be upfront on the sales page and advise those users that do not live on their laptops day by day, that this is a potential issue.
I agree. Perhaps adding a link to the knowledge base article on the page might be good. It’s important to fill a gap between a potential customer’s expectation and reality to gain long-term users.
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I got a long reply from Framework to my short question -
" Thank you for your patience. Per a Community post by our Founder regarding RTC Battery functionality:
"The RTC battery (CMOS battery) powers the very low power subsystem that preserves the real time clock (responsible for providing the calendar clock to the system) and some processor state. This battery exists to allow system time to be preserved while the main battery is in ship mode, disconnected, or drained. The RTC battery recharges when the laptop is plugged into power.
Normally, when the RTC battery drains below the voltage threshold needed to power the RTC subsystem (if the laptop was left unplugged for months on the high end or weeks on the low end), the impact would be that the system clock resets. With most operating systems, this wouldn’t be noticeable, since the OS will automatically grab the current time off of a network time protocol server and update the system clock again. However, with 11th Gen Intel Core processors, Intel shared that there is a silicon bug where low voltage on the subsystem that the RTC battery powers can put the processor into a stuck state that needs to be manually reset (we wrote this guide to share the reset process: Fully Resetting the Mainboard State - Framework Guides 6 Note that allowing the RTC battery to fully recharge by keeping the system plugged in for >24 hours after a reset or after leaving the system unplugged for more than a few weeks is important). This happens randomly, in that only some instances of the RTC battery reaching low voltage will result in the CPU going into a bad state, which is both how Intel didn’t find this during development of the processor and neither we nor our manufacturing partner saw it occur during design of the laptop.
For folks on 11th Gen Mainboards, our guidance continues to be that if you plan to leave the laptop unplugged for weeks/months, to do so with power plugged in. If not, there is a some percent chance that the manual reset will be needed at the next time the laptop is used. We know that if this is a behavior you regularly need to follow, that it is annoying and decreases the enjoyment of using the product. Since this does occur randomly, it is possible there are processors or RTC batteries that it is more likely to occur on than others. If you are seeing this happen unusually often, reach out to Framework Support, and we will work with you to swap you out a replacement RTC battery or replacement 11th Gen Mainboard. There are possible mitigations we are investigating in firmware, like having the main battery “power up” to recharge the RTC battery when the system is unplugged for long periods of time, though over a long enough period, that would result in both the main and RTC battery being empty and still risking entry into the stuck state. This firmware mitigation is speculative though, so we don’t have a firm plan for it.
For the future, with 12th Gen Intel Core, there are a few changes that prevent this from occurring. We’ve reduced RTC battery power consumption to make the RTC rail stay powered for about twice as long with the system unplugged. We’ve also designed in a path that allows the main battery to keep the RTC battery charged. Finally, we’ve designed a reset circuit that prevents the manual reset process from being needed, doing an automatic process instead."
Swapping the mainboard would only be a valid option if the mainboard reset process is needed frequently even after trickle charging the RTC for 24 hours after non-use for weeks/months. If that’s happening, there’s a chance either the RTC battery is faulty or or the RTC battery holder might not have a solid connection to the mainboard. Outside of the above, a swap of the mainboard would not result in any meaningful change to observed functionality as it is expected.
Regards,
Framework Support"
So I’m taking that reply as -
“Yes it’s a design flaw that might (but probably not) get fixed!”
I’ll think about it over the weekend and then might just flog it off on Ebay or something.
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Does anyone else think it’s ironic that nrp says to go to support and support quotes nrp in the support ticket?
Support last replied to me June 15. I have sent 3 responses since them and it’s silence. While I admire the optimism of those who assume silence means they are working on it, my gut tells me the opposite is true and they are ignoring it and focusing on selling the next thing rather than supporting the existing product and backers… Kind of the opposite of a sustainability mission in my opinion.
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Given this ‘replacement’ wording, there’s no scoping / limitation of what they replace the 11th Gen Mainboard with. Usually there would be wording to the nature of “equivalent or better”.
For example, if it’s a Logitech mouse, Logitech has been known to replace older model with newer model during RMA.
Could this be the case here as well? Replace the 11th Gen Mainboard, with a 12th Gen Mainboard?
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It could be Framework scraping along the edge of compliance (of components. voltages, etc) and when Intel ships chips with silicon bug things start to go south.
I still however think it’s a duff battery.
This is becoming quite the unintended ‘feature’:
You better use the Framework Laptop everyday, or we’ll give you hell.
Force product adoption. LoL.
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The biggest thing I am worried about is 8 days without response to my support ticket and no transparency from @nrp or anyone else from framework on what is going to happen next.
I’d be more willing to be patient and give trust if there was communication and commitment to make it right for their backers and customers. Unfortunately, it has been radio silent. This is a very bad omen.