What's your journey to the Framework 16?

Framework Laptop 16
1

So, as we all sit and wait for shipments of the FW16 to start, I thought maybe we could kill some time sharing our “journeys” that lead us to Framework.

I was a gamer (now just play the occasional game) and still consider myself a tech enthusiast. My first PC was a whitebox 386, and the first component I ever changed out of that system was the video card. It’s funny that today I can’t remember what that card was, but I do remember I drove a long way to get it.

I kept upgrading my PC through 2013. Over the years swapping components was still exciting, but had also become stressful. One little slip and you could easily wreck your brand new CPU or motherboard. Even swapping RAM seemed to be getting more challenging, needing a fair bit of pressure to get seated properly. Installing RAM and drives in laptops at work was actually much easier. I had also been traveling quite a bit and really wanted to have a computer with me.

My first gaming laptop was a Lenovo Y580. I was fairly happy with it until about 4 years in. It had a 15” FHD display, and I believe the CPU was the i7-3630qm (definitely the 3rd-gen quad-core i7). I had installed 16GB of RAM and a 256GB mSATA SSD in it. The GPU (a GTX660m) was the first thing that started bothering me. It just wasn’t up to playing newer games.

The “nail in the coffin” for that laptop though was a Lenovo utility for resetting the battery stats. Using that utility blew a transistor on the motherboard that would prevent the battery from charging normally (https://www.techinferno.com/index.php?/topic/3893-y580-warning-do-not-use-battery-meter-restet-function/&tab=comments). My inability to easily repair the motherboard or swap the GPU lead to my purchasing a whole new laptop.

My next laptop was the Asus GL702VM. It was an exciting time, when the specs of Nvidia’s mobile parts actually made sense relative to the desktop parts. I was excited about the promise of Thunderbolt 3 and eGPUs. I thought, here was an opportunity to extend the life of my laptop. When the GPU wasn’t powerful enough anymore, I could just get an eGPU rather than a whole new laptop. Sadly, despite Asus proudly exclaiming “up to 40Gbps” for the Thunderbolt port, no GL702 models actually shipped with 40Gbps ports. They all used the cheaper Intel TB chip that could only do 20Gbps. Even full speed TB ports impact the performance of an eGPU. The half-speed port of the Asus laptop was nothing more than a useless gimmick.

The GTX 1060 GPU of the Asus laptop was at least good enough to get me through nearly 5 years of use, but again it was the non-upgradable GPU that really pushed me to my next laptop.

I replaced the GL702VM with the pretty amazing Lenovo (yes, I took a chance with Lenovo again) Legion 5 Pro (2021). This was a model that was, for a time, difficult to find, especially the “Walmart” one that sold for $1329. I was one of the lucky ones to find it fairly early on at the Walmart closest to me. Now, this is actually a pretty solid machine. I don’t have any issues playing games on it (RTX 3070), and I like the port layout (most are along the back) even if it lacks Thunderbolt.

But I know it’s just a matter of time before I hit the same wall as the other laptops, and there is already something about it that is bothersome. Despite AMD releasing new AGESA code to address a well-known fTPM bug that can cause stutter, Lenovo has never released a BIOS with the updated AGESA code.

So here I am. (Im)Patiently waiting for my Framework 16 (batch 1). I have essentially bought into a hope. A hope that I can replace individual components only when they need to be or when I want something more.

A hope that I will be buying my last laptop.

8 Likes
2

I come from a very different place… I’m a programmer both professionally and as one of my primary hobbies, and “my computer” will always refer to a desktop system. However, there’s always some times where I want to do “computer stuff” but not sit at “my computer”. I have a long history of just barely adequate laptops and tablets filling in that gap.

However, I primarily use FreeBSD on my systems, so laptops have always been a huge pain to deal with. Crazy driver issues, bad BIOS tables, weird hardware choices, etc. The time sink just to bring up a “new” laptop is crazy, and there’s never been a up-to-date system that I’ve felt I can contribute FreeBSD work to without being the only guy working on the platform. This has resulted in a stack of cheap, used laptops the have an old version of FreeBSD on them that just aren’t worth booting up and bringing up to date.

With the Framework 16, at least that pile shouldn’t get any bigger, and there’s some interesting programming puzzles available for it. It will also, due to the easily swappable storage, allow me to use it as a multiboot system for testing on different OSs outside of a VM, which is something I’ve been wanting for a while now, but am not interested in building another desktop system for.

6 Likes
3

Framework did get on my path through Linus Tech Tips, I directly liked the concept.

My work is various a lot. But now a days I require a good reliable laptop for ledwall productions, programming & oparting software.

I did already buy Framework 13, which is a great laptop do Timekeeping on for the horse sports.
I currently own various old and new equipement, but still was looking for a laptop with Thunderbolt/USB4 support, that can be upgraded and is strong enough for my work.

Framework 16 would be far be my best choice to have a good machine that meets my requirements and direclty helping towards a goal of maintainable laptops.

Writing this on a Asus Zephyrus G15 with Ryzen 9 5900HS & RTX 3050

4 Likes
4

Personally, I am trying to get out of the hold of Apple. Apple makes amazing computers. I have a 16" MacBook Pro with an M1 Pro chip, 16GB memory and 512GB SSD. Amazingly fast machine, great battery life (almost a day if you are using it for every day work) and even 10 hours if you are editing videos. However, I am not happy being a prisoner of their ecosystem and I am trying to buy a machine that would live for a long time with me and that I can customize and repair.

13 Likes
5

I have been keeping an eye on framework for well since LTT first mentioned it. But my big sticking point was as you can see below i have gone from well 10/11” - 17” and seem to always settle back at 15-16” (I’m a nerd so just covering my main Laptop type computers)
(I don’t remember all the CPUS but most all where the top end or 1 step below top end)
(GPU if it was an option was Primarily AMD till the 9500 then Nvidia)

So with that knowledge wasn’t really interested in the 13” as I didn’t want the ULV intel processors as i want a GPU that actually can do something THOUGH I ALMOST pulled the trigger on the 13” AMD but when i got the finances straight THAT day Framework announced the 16” I waited as I didn’t want wave 1 so waited till Wave 6 was up and then with in a day or 2 when i went to order was wave 8 lol…

Disclaimer: note i worked for a certain computer company for several years so was maybe partial to them and resold the computers with each upgrade I No longer work for them and haven’t for almost a decade now (that makes me feels old saying that) Some may be slightly out of order I almost always had a gaming desktop normally custom Built save for my (Dell XPS 700(XPS710 Upgrade kit) and my Dell XPS 720H2C and an Inspiron AIO with the Ryzen 1700 and Rx580)

There where more but IF I didn’t use them for more than 5 months I didn’t list them…(Caugh Latitude 2100 2120)

Bought all the G3/G4 series laptops used from a friend

  • PowerBook G3 Wall Street 233Mhz(later upgraded to G4 500Mhz thanks Sonnett 96MB ram 512MB with G4
  • PowerBook G4 12” 1.5Ghz 1.25GB ram
  • First new laptop MacBook Pro 15” 1,1 T2400 80gb 2gb
  • MacBook Pro 2009 13” P8400 4gb initially then 8GB ram 250GB HDD
    Dell Latitude D820 Coreduo (upgraded to core 2 duo P8800iirc)
  • Dell XPS m1530 Core 2duo T9500 Bought my first ssd a Samsung 470 128gb(used till my XPS 1645)
  • Dell Precision M6400 Core2quad (bought my 2nd 128gb ssd)
  • Dell XPS 1645
  • Dell Vostro 3555 256 gb ssd
  • Dell XPS 9q23 256gb msata
  • Dell XPS 9q33 512gb msata
  • Dell Venue 5130 Pro 64gb 32 bit
  • Dell Venue 7140 256gb nvme
  • Dell Latitude 5179 256gb m.2sata still have tinker with win 10 still Couch computer :wink:
  • MacBook Pro 2015 15” 16gb 1tb NVME HACK (my last apple laptop) VCard Failed
  • Dell Inspiron 7375 2in1 m.2 sata
  • Dell Inspiron 7559 500 nvme
  • Dell Inspiron 7415 2in1 1tb nvme and 1tb sata
  • Dell XPS 15 9575 1 tb nvme Died Replaced under warranty by 9500
  • Dell XPS 9500 2x 1tb nvme
  • Dell G5 SE 5505 1x 512gb and 2tb 660p nvme Still have runs my security Cams
  • Dell XPS 9520 2x 2tb nvme My Current Daily Driver
  • Dell G5 5511 1x 512gb and 2tb 660p nvme I tinker with Linux Builds on this one and run Folding at home on it
  • Alienware M15 R5 Ryzen 2x 1tb nvme -My Gaming laptop
  • Apple iPad Pro 11 3rd gen With Bagic KB (Wrote all of this on this device)

Most all my dells had
4gb ram CD and 5130
8gb ram C2D
16gb ram C2Q-9q33, 7375, 9575
32gb ram 7415, 9500 5506 5511 M15
64gb ram 9520

My Goal with Framework is to replace my XPS15 9520 and maybe in 2-3 yrs replace my Alienware as well. as you can see i have upgraded most generations i will say most all computers from the 7140 onward are all functional with friends and family or i still have.

  • I ordered the Ryzen 7 DIY Wave 8
  • I plan on Getting a WD 850X 2 or 4TB and a 770m 2TB
  • either 64 or 96 GB of ram depending on Reports.
  • RGB English KB
  • LED side panels
  • Black bezel
  • No Video card (hope for Nvidia 5xxx series or next gen AMD)
  • 3x USBC
  • 1x USBA
  • 1x Micro SD
  • 1x HDMI
  • 180W ac adapter
8 Likes
6

I also was made aware of framework due to LTT’s first video on the 13. Now, unlike others, I am very young (not an adult), so I haven’t really had many computers before ordering my 16.

Now, because I grew up with computers and being a bit curious, I ended up being very tech literate. As I grew more, I found myself learning about issues such as right to repair, which I found myself supporting. And when I did finally get my own computer, I taught myself to program.

So I ended up with preordering the 16 to support an idea, as well as my current living situation making a desktop not convenient.

6 Likes
7

@Cbigfoot wow! That’s a lot of laptops!

I didn’t order the dGPU either. I don’t have much hope for an Nvidia module, but I will need something a lot better than the 7700s to be a noticeable upgrade from my RTX 3070.

I do plan on using both laptops for a time, but my focus for the FW16 is to abandon Windows. I made a “Steam Box”/personal cloud out of a UM773 and Ubuntu, so I’ve already taken steps down that path.

Exciting times!

8

Starting in college up until having a kid, I’ve always had some sort of gaming rig that I built myself. Now that I don’t have the time I used to, a kid, then pandemic, then more normal “trying to be a good dad/spouse,” I’ve had to consolidate to just a laptop.

My previous laptop (Dell G 5505) was only a few years old, but I liked the idea of the next one being repairable. I could just replace parts that need it. So, I pre-ordered the 16, with dGPU because I’d like to play a bit too. You may notice the verb “was.” It promptly threw the LCD dead pre-boot error, but also wouldn’t work with DP or HDMI, so I’m sure it’s the GPU that fried.

Can’t replace it without replacing the whole kit, so I salvaged the parts that were good, and got a 13.
It’s a great little worker that’ll get me by until the 16 arrives.

2 Likes
9

@Kyle_Tuck yeah well i got good deals and having worked for the company…even better deals during that time… i say ~50% where scratch and dent refurbished ~25% where Refurb Like new and the rest New New. The last real NEW laptop i bought was the XPS 9575. Before that was the venue and lattitude tablets….heck the 15” MBP was from some one i do computer work for that has more money than common sense…quoted him ~$250 to upgrade the ssd and he went and bought a 2019 MBP and told me to recycle the 2015 lol.

@Loren_L I can confim the gpu would likely be dead then…i had the GPU die 2 times on my G5 se 5505 and it gave the same error. i have it throttled so it hopefully wont die again and strictly run my camera software and thats it. The instability and issues is why i never resold it and repurposed it.

10

@Mason_Adams I am in a very similar position to you with my FW16. I ended up splurging for the 7940hs and no 7700s. Next year I will be a senior in High School, and having the preorder is amazing for me, as I have been saving every paycheck from my job since the announcement and subsequent preorder (batch 4).
I was introduced to framework by one of CJ’s videos on elevated systems, but saw the 16 from the LTT video where FW let them have a look at a prototype. I currebtly have a hp 15 inch laptop, but it has a 1035g1 and I can bareley get anything done other then running chrome.
The things that made the FW16 appealing to me is 1, I like big laptops, its a preference. 2, having a left hand numpad helps with 3d modeling and quickly typing in dimensions while keeping my right hand on the mouse. 3, I wabt to support a company thats values align with my own. I had to replace the display on my HP laptop and it was a huge PITA. Having a computer that is portable, and that I can upgrade and repair to last me through college is huge. I plan on studying electrical hardware engineering and seeing the sheer complexity and engineering feat that the FW16 is still blows my mind.

7940hs
No dgpu
64gb gskill ddr5
1tb sn770m
Backlit keyboard w/numpad

3 Likes
11

I was destined to arrive at the Framework 16. I love computers, and I hate throwing things away.

I fell in love with computers with my dad’s Apple IIe. The green monitor, the screeching printer, heck I can almost remember the smell of the plastic. When I finally got the thrill of ordering my first new laptop, a Dell Inspiron 600m (which I still have and am trying to revive after suddenly refusing to POST), I felt like a freakin’ king being able to demand exactly what I wanted. I remember there being some hyping of the “modular” optical drive bay, but I don’t think there were many options for it other than possibly a second battery? Maybe? Still, I felt reassured that this thing would last me a long time.

I guess it did in normal terms, but 5 years later I upgraded to a big 17" Toshiba with a first-gen i7. 8 years later came my first desktop (a refurbished Optiplex 7010, still in heavy use), then a much more portable Latitude E7250 (also refurbished) to retire the massive Toshiba, then in 2020 I built my first gaming/video editing computer.

I have pretty much all my bases covered now, especially with the network I set up allowing me to remote in to any of my desktops from anywhere, so theoretically I could still do 4K video editing from the road (big roadtripper here), but even if I used my 17" Toshiba, it’s still only a 1366x768 screen, and there’s still the problem of maintaining an internet connection and the latency can get annoying. Video editing away from home was pretty much the one thing I couldn’t do.

Normally this would not justify spending over $2,000 for me, but something else happened recently that made this almost as much of a moral stance as it is a purchase. I started a hobby-level nonprofit of repairing/refurbishing donated computers and giving them to people who don’t have one. This really exposed me to the nonsense that is the PC, or more specifically the laptop industry. That something so powerful could be made so disposable borders on infuriating for me, so when I stumbled across this product, I saw it as a way to vote with some cash in the hopes of nudging the market back towards a place where computers can last as long as their physical components do, and then some.

I don’t know if it’ll succeed on a large enough scale, but at least I’ll get a laptop out of it that I can feel good about owning, and don’t have to worry about replacing entirely because of a single bad chip or one bottlenecking component, at least for what I expect to be way longer than my personal record of 10 years of continuous use on that Toshiba.

6 Likes
12

Heard the name first in the videos of the “greatest technician that’s ever lived” (cit) and realised my tablet isn’t helping me as much as I would have thought. Upgradeability made me take the plunge.

1 Like
13

@Dark_Ansem I love watching SalemTechsperts. Great content from “The Greatest Technician That’s Ever Lived.” I hope he makes a video on FW

2 Likes
14

Oh boy. This is a saga. I just got my first Mac, coming from linux/window dual boot. It’s been pretty good for 5 years. The 2015 was the last one that really allowed some DIY stuff, so I was able to upgrade the SSD to 10x the space, and I also was able to replace the battery 2x for just $30.
Now all that’s coming to an end with the M3; still no upgradable RAM, and they’ve killed the ability to upgrade the SSD, along with shoddy battery practices.

Unfortunately, I’ve grown used to a few key things that the Framework doesn’t have:

  1. MacOS. Specifically, the ability to have $ apps running, but still access an underlying unix-like system for stuff via BREW. Fortunately, there’s only one app I use that’s only available on Mac, which is Hookmark.

  2. the nice trackpad. I still prefer using a mouse, but it’s possible to use the trackpad from the keyboard more quickly. I don’t think it’s a showstopper??

The annoyances on the macbook side have been:

  1. the need for hacky software solutions to basic problems such as Finder, the dock, running out of menubar space etc

  2. Bluetooth only works reliably with apple stuff. None of my mice have worked reliable and apple mice suck

I’m ready to spend obscene $ on a new laptop, but I can’t accept being in a position in 3 years time with a battery that’s a bit knackered, RAM that limits me on AI, and an SDD that would benefit from expansion. “Buy what you need” is a non-sequitur: Did anyone forecast the need for RAM before the AI revolution this year??
It’s not really a matter of the wastage of disposable electronics in terms of money, it’s more that I just hate that feeling of having a chunk of plastic that I’m stuck with. There’s trade-in options, but those are so much lower than the 2nd hand market, so for sure I’m going to find myself battling trying to sell the stupid thing. It’s just not a good experience.
I’m prepared to spend; just not to the point of throwing money at it indescriminately.

5 Likes
15

For me, there really hasn’t been any laptop with all of the following specs:

  • Good Linux support. (I tried installing Linux on three other 2023 Windows laptops and there was always something that didn’t work. Two of them had non functioning speakers and the third has no keyboard backlighting. The first two went back and the third will be going back at the end of the month, before the return period is over. I only bought it because of the constant delays of the Framework Laptop 16.)
  • An ANSI keyboard layout (that basically eliminates Tuxedo computers as they only have ISO at the moment).
  • A dGPU (that eliminates the StarLabs StarFighter because no dGPU option).
  • A screen that isn’t 16:9 (basically kills every non Tuxedo Linux laptop) and has a resolution greater than 1920x1200 (that kills the System76 Oryx Pro which only has a 1920x1200 screen despite being able to be equipped with GPUs that could game at 2560x1600 and no other System76 laptop has a screen that isn’t 16:9).

Framework with their 16 inch laptop seem to have almost everything I have been looking for and then some. The only problem is the low-end dGPU, but having the ability to swap it out later basically mitigates that issue. Also, the repairability is the biggest plus for me, given my Legion 7 2022 (the AMD Advantage model) is basically unusable and my other laptop all have issues (like the keyboard backlighting being non existent in Linux) or aren’t powerful enough for my workflows or gaming needs (like my Asus ROG Flow x13 2021).

4 Likes
16

I’ve always been a fan of the 14" size, rather than 13" or 15+“. Unfortunately, basically no 14” mid/high end business class (e.g. Thinkpad T or P series or the like) generally has had 2 SODIMM slots to give me the minimum RAM I need for work. I have a RAM heavy VM I need to be able to run for local testing, so I’ve needed 64GB (2x32GB on my current 4800H). And was specifically looking at AMD for the decent enough light gaming iGPU that they have.

I did find Tuxedo systems, out of Germany, however they didn’t offer a US keyboard, only ISO which is rather a bit annoying, but I can deal with it. But the battery life frankly just isn’t great. And I finally decided to leave the 14" form factor, and the Framework just appeals to be for the concept and past execution of actually keeping upgrades coming, and the possibility of a 2nd battery or a much more capable dGPU in the back slot is exciting as a maybe possibility in the future.

Plus the very F/OSS friendly company, and dedication to at least good Linux support.

Although I am wishful that they’ll end up coming out with a Trackpoint keyboard…although I’m realistically doubting it’ll happen sigh

1 Like
17

I’m a system administrator / network engineer by trade. Having a portable system with me at all times to be able to immediately console into any switch or router that needed assistance has become almost second nature to me. This was magnified by the facts that a) most of my friends were / are big on purchasing secondhand Cisco networking hardware (enterprise stuff), and b) I’m the best out of all of us at handling the Cisco CLI.

My previous machine is an Eve V tablet. That had several notable problems with getting to market, but being an optimist at heart, I put most of it down to “first new self-designed machine” teething troubles. Because I did receive it.

When the Eve V 2 came to market, I pre-ordered that as well. I never received it. I’ve never gotten a refund. Every avenue attempted has failed. Eventually, I had to give up on ever seeing any of that money or the new unit that had been paid for. So now I have a tablet that has a very fixed configuration, broken keyboard, all the woes you would expect from being in use longer than planned, and no replacement.

I’m also an avid Ars Technica reader. They mentioned the Framework 13 at or near its launch, and I mentally marked it down as “Huh. Well, more promises are nice and all, but let’s see how they actually deliver.” I have other co-workers who saw the LTT video and were excited, and I absolutely poured cold water all over them for buying into the hype.

Ars later covered the announcement of the FW16 (and the FW13 AMD mainboard). The fact that Framework had actually delivered upgrades and followed through on their outlined plans impressed me enough to start investigating the FW16 and its possibilities. Now here I am in Batch 1 and honestly, I’m not even going to be able to use it for a full two weeks after I get it, because of the number of people who have demanded I show them how it all works!

The biggest thing that sold me (aside from the fact that Framework actually has a track record now) is the upgrade and repair possibilities. I habitually use my desktops at work and at home for ten years before I’ll be willing to replace them, and in that time I will typically perform quite a few upgrades. Getting a new portable machine every few years simply wouldn’t do… and yet for purposes outside of work, I find myself outpacing each machine’s capabilities faster than I would otherwise. This gives me a way to extend the life of the system in the same fashion as I would with a desktop–except even more so, because I can even replace the mainboard easily. The fact that it’s Linux-friendly is an absolute bonus, because I’m also at the point in my life where I’m going to be switching to Linux as my daily driver on all systems rather than move to Windows 11.

8 Likes
18

I “feel” every bit of this. Framework’s track record thus far impresses me, though I do still have anxiety that they haven’t really been around that long. I was very skeptical early on because promises about modularity, repairability, and upgradability have been made (and broken) so many times before.

I really want a better option than a full system replacement every 4-5 years. Years 1 and 2 are typically great, then things get progressively worse (in any number of ways) until I reach a point of near complete dissatisfaction.

This will also be the laptop where I plan on ditching Windows for Linux.

3 Likes
19

Three years, with three subsequent upgrade mainboards for the original product isn’t enough? They’ve delivered what they said they would.

1 Like
20

No need to be defensive.

Their track record is promising enough for me to take a chance. But as far as companies go, less than 2.5 years of shipping products makes Framework a very young company. It should also be pointed out that Framework does not share any of their financial information or even how many units are in a “batch”. That should warrant at least some anxiety for anyone. Anxiety is not a bad thing.

My anxiety was not enough to outweigh my hope. I have a laptop and a mini PC. I am already thinking 2-3 years out where I hope that I can use the mainboard from the FW 16 to replace my mini PC. I believe Framework has a good business model, especially since they already have folks like me thinking long-term. For my previous laptops, I had zero loyalty to the brand I was buying; I was just buying what seemed like the best deal matching the specs I wanted. If Framework keeps up what they have been doing and is around for the long term, it’s hard to picture myself buying any other brand.

6 Likes