I’m back with another community survey!
This time, I have a question for Framework Laptop 16 owners who originally considered getting a Framework Laptop 13 but ended up choosing the Framework Laptop 16 instead. Why did you choose the 16 over the 13? What were the key decision-making points for you? If you could share more about your use case or provide any additional context, that would be great!
I won’t be able to help with all the market analysis, because I didn’t get it instead of a FW 13. I also have a FW 13, lol.
A big factor for me is the repairability and upgradeability. Framework’s overall mission to move back toward a society of ownership, especially with hardware, is a big deal. But the reason for getting one when I already had a FW 13 was because I just thought it was such a unique beast. The dedicated GPU offered gaming and video editing performance above what the FW 13 gave me, the crazy modularity and the removable GPU module/expansion bay was just another layer of interesting possibilities for the future.
Edit: My use case is primarily gaming. I don’t do a ton of gaming, but I enjoy the ability to play a game or two, and being able to do it on a laptop can be handy. Because, unfortunately, gaming is still simply a bit easier on Windows, it’s also the laptop I use when I occasionally want to use Windows for something at work. My FW 13 has Linux.
Originally, I was editing videos on the FW 16 as well. That was probably my largest use case, in fact. But I switched back to my desktop because the files I was editing don’t have hardware encode or decode on AMD, so the fan was just screaming the entire time. Though I’m sure that would be better now that I switched the Liquid Metal out for PTM.
I considered both, and was leaning toward the '16 due to the larger screen and additional ports, when I discovered (via one of the LTT videos) that the back piece was designed so that it could be replaced with a second battery. That was enough for me, my decision was made. Really hope you guys make one eventually.
I previously owned a Framework Laptop 13, which I passed on to my wife. I needed a thicker machine with more performance, a dedicated GPU, and excellent Linux support, so the Framework Laptop 16 was an easy choice for me. However, the 7700S GPU has been disappointing in terms of performance, and so far, no new upgrade options for the FW16 have been announced, which is disappointing.
Additionally, issues with the device have been accumulating over time. Framework has been relatively slow in delivering firmware and driver updates, and many issues reported on the forums seem to go unanswered.
Originally, I intended to use the FW16 as my primary workstation. Unfortunately, I had to adjust my plans and return to an older MacBook Pro, which:
Currently, the FW16 remains on my desk, plugged in full-time, and is used mainly for light tasks (development / AI or game related) after work hours.
I am getting older and my eyes are no longer as good as they once were. I need bigger characters and more screen real estate. I choose the FW16 for the bigger screen. A 13" screen would just not work for me.
Framework 13 wasn’t really on my radar prior to learning about the up-coming Framework 16. I also already have a few old (small) HP Elitebooks that run Linux just fine and fulfilled that smaller form-factor.
The 16 was a game-changer in my mind with modularity, upgrade-ability, official linux support, and most importantly the replaceable dGPU. I wanted a performance gaming laptop that could handle mostly everything my gaming desktop could and the 16 fulfilled that perfectly.
It isn’t without its problems, which sadly Framework doesn’t seem to be in any hurry to resolve for us, as Aurelien listed below:
I have managed to work around these by shutting it down before going anywhere with it and watching the dgpu power states while on battery, (and that last one seemed to go away after replacing the LM cpu cooling solution).
All-in-all, I’m glad I bought it. It has been fun to use and tinker with. It’s become my main work and gaming machine.
I opted for the Framework Laptop 16 over the 13 largely because I was looking at replacing my desktop with a laptop but no other laptops ever met the modularity equivalent of a desktop until the 16 released. I like having the higher power CPUs, the larger battery, the option of using a dGPU or not, the amount of expansion slots, the larger screen, and I prefer to have a centered keyboard on my laptops and very few have one in this size class.
I’m a software developer - heavier stacks like C# and Java in the past, now a more pedestrian Python. I’ve moved to 45W-class CPUs in my laptops in 2015 with the release of XPS 15 9550. At that time getting a quad-core in a 15" was a big difference for productivity compared to 15W dual-cores in 13" laptops.
I had to get used to carrying a 2kg laptop instead of 1.3kg. But once that was done, some advantages became apparent:
This really all connected for me in Framework 16 as I’ve been playing Baldur’s Gate 3 split screen with my wife on our trips using the 7700S dGPU and internal display on Framework 16.
And the performance gap between 13" and 15"+ has returned thanks to AMD “nudging” Intel out of selling the same quad-core parts again and again. So even though I’m jealous of 13’s portability, I always go for a bigger laptop because I know I will feel the performance gain right away, and it’s easy to justify paying a bit more for a thing that will make my life better for the next 4+ years.
And the last thing is that I was watching Framework since the very start and my previous laptop (XPS 9700) finally broke after 4 years - just in time for Framework 16 to become available to get without huge wait time. And of course I would go for the most extensible and hackable laptop that Framework has to offer.
PS. I frankensteined an XPS 9570 motherboard into the XPS 9560 chassis with XPS 9550 screen, so Framework was always what I wanted. Plus, I ordered so many parts for my and my wife’s XPSs from Aliexpress which were either wrong or broken, incl. keyboards and batteries, that the repairability alone is what’s enough to make our household go with Framework-only for new laptop purchases.
PPS. Use case by exclusion: I have a desktop and PS5 connected to TV for couch gaming. Steam Deck for mobile gaming. Tablet for watcuing YouTube and Netflix. Framework 16 is my main workstation when at home connected to multi-monitor setup. Plus for playing games with mouse and keyboard. Plus, for using it as a laptop for anything around and outside the house. Plus, for gaming during travel.
I needed a desktop replacement and the Ryzen9 7940HS was a very attractive option at that time. My use case required a larger screen. The FW16 offered both and several other interesting benefits.
I need the numpad and also wasn’t willing to reduce screen size from my previuos notebook. Therefore, the smaller machine never was an option.
I’m not exactly the target of this survey. I bought the 16" w/ dGPU to replace my desktop + laptop (a Framework 13). It’s my all-purpose work and gaming machine.
I chose Framework because user-serviceability is deeply important to me. Framework clearly has the competition beat in that respect, as well as access to parts.
The customization options for the input deck were also super exciting.
Optional dGPU for gaming/productivity, and I hope we can more options in future. The 7700S was a good decision by the way. High-end GPUs don’t make sense at laptops due thermals. Low-end GPUs are pointless today due APU.
That’s the only reason. I’m personally more inclined to 13inch / 14inch laptops (and now buying the ASUS Flow Z13 for AI stuff and light travel)
Hope we can get more dGPU in future, not necessarily for gaming but professional use (like RTX PRO 5000 Mobile or AMD alike). Large screen laptops with professional GPU are great for scientist / engineer / architect workstations
I was interested in Framework from near the beginning, as I was in the batch 1 preorder of the original Intel 11th gen FW13. However, I ultimately ended up cancelling that preorder right before it was going to ship. I was hesistant to buy a 1st gen product from a new company at the time. Didn’t consider Framework further until the FW16 was announced.
Now I have a FW16. I use it for gaming and general use when I am away from home and the desktop/tower PC I have there. Some factors that led me to choose a FW16 were:
My main dissatisfaction with the FW16 is with its performance placement, the dGPU option (or the lack thereof of higher performance or more vram ones), and the pacing of offered upgrades. To me, the FW16 seems like a pseudo workstation/gaming laptop, yet doesn’t have the latest processors compared to its smaller FW13 cousin, is currently only offered with an 8gb vram dGPU which isn’t very futureproof, and has a large physical footprint but without the latest processors or a very powerful dGPU to show for it.
The GPU problem is not really a FW16 issue, it’s AMD issue.
They have nothing today. My previous laptop used the Radeon 6700, and that was 10GB. AMD has no other mobile GPU over 8GB today. They just announced a 16GB GPU by the way AMD's RX 9000M-series mobile GPUs are rumoured to top out with an RX 9080M featuring 64 CUs and 16 GB of VRAM | PC Gamer
My major concern of “high end GPUs” on mobile is “thermals” and “power usage”.
Nvidia did a wonderful job with 5090 laptop, 24GB using just 95W TDP (or more) is good for mobile. It makes me mad that AMD is always behind Nvidia.
Primarily I wanted a 16" laptop that was very linux friendly, though the repairability and e-waste concerns were also major factors. I do art production and have used macbooks for years but have soured on the costs and built-in obsolescence in the mac ecosystem (I had a nighmare trying to get a battery replaced for my macbook and after that I was done). Knowing that I was gonna be shifting to Linux, I felt like framework was the right fit. If better internals come along, I can switch to them without having to buy a new laptop and that is huge.
So far I am pretty happy. The Framework 16 has its quirks for sure (and part of that is me moving to a new operating system), but overall its been a good experience. I definitely feel like my computer is more mine than it has been in the past.
I’ve been looking for a 16inch laptop for awhile. None of the more expensive models attracted me, thinking what was the use of a AUD4000 laptop that couldn’t run Linux without compatibility issues or even have a battery life longer than 30 min (essentially having to running games etc tethered to the PSU). (I know there are some very gross generalisations in the preceding sentences, but you get the idea. I did look and drooled at the Alienware, XPS, Asus etc, but the options did not make economic sense especially here in Australia (See Australia IT tax on everything so far far away…)).
A good friend had an expensive laptop (Asus) but had to basically throw it away because the keyboard was not repairable. I’ve always wanted a framework since they started the repairable trend, getting a 16 with the option of a GPU in the bay was just cream on top of the cake! I saved for it and now have a very repairable and upgradable laptop (compared to my friend whose new laptop back then is now considered obsolete by today’s standards…)
When the 13 came out, I was interested. Then Framework upgraded it, I was most interested and wanted to buy one. Then the 16 landed and once I saw all the option (like GPU, expansion bay with 2 nvme slots, different keypads and keyboard options, I was hooked).
PS i love framework and will oneday buy the tractor!
edit words because i’m an idiot and cant type…
Why I Chose:
I chose a FW 16 over a FW 13, mainly due to the screen size. I needed 15 or above screensize for my use case.
I chose FW not so much the repairability, but more the reduced amount of e-waste.
With other laptops, when they get old the mainboard often is the bit that fails. Being old, you probably don’t want to buy an old spec mainboard, but instead want a newer mainboard. But the only way to get a new mainboard is to replace the entire laptop. Throwing out a perfectly good case and screen, keyboard.
With FW, I would just buy a newer mainboard, and keep the rest. Much less e-waste.
With the open source EC souce code, I have been able to fix the battery charge/discharge problems myself.
Even better if:
Things that would make the FW16 be even more attractive:
I preordered a FW13 with the 7840U and canceled the preorder when the FW16 was announced. I got it because of the possibility to get an OcuLink8i eGPU - which hasn’t come to frutition, so if I could go back, I would stick with the FW13.
First I was interested in the 13 as a replacement for my thinkpad x220t from 2013.
But by the time I actually was able to afford a new device, the 16 was already available for preorder. Between my first interest in the 13 and my ability to afford a new device, quite a bit changed in my life and I rather wanted a replacement for my desktop PC with a Vega 56.
Before the Framework 16 I would’ve never bought a gaming laptop, as a friend of mine had one and when the mainboard failed, he would’ve needed to buy a whole new laptop.
With that problem out of the way (now I only need to replace the broken part) there was nothing discouraging me from going with the framework 16.
The framework 13 wouldnt have been able to replace a Vega 56 Computer, so it was no longer an option.
I got the 16 because the 13 doesn’t have enough expansion card slots for my use (I still have to use a USB hub) and the possibility to slot in a GPU or OcuLink card when needed, also since I came from a 17’’ laptop I’m already used to the size.