Will Framework Phone be far from now？

General Topics
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Framework laptop DIY edition is very cool,since Technology giants and manufacturers are increasingly integrating electronics like laptops,of course, for more profit ,though.

Modularization design is what consumers really need.

So will there be Framework Phone DIY edition in the future?
Such as i can replace the battery by myself (Not like popular removable phone battery before around 2000-2010,Nor phone battery nowadays,but a solution between the two)

Or,i can add or remove type-c or lightning on the phone if needed LOL
Or,i can add or remove camera on the phone

There is a clear balance between integration and modularization，i think.
But for our new generation,we just missed the “Modularization” time and born in "Integration"time,but i don`t think Integration is the only choice for us,a machine can be Modularized,and its components can be integration.

The key is that,for high profit,the technology giants highly increase the difficulty for a consumer to fix or update his equipment bought from them.Thus we have to buy new one,or, we have to pay much money on the repairs.

So i`d like to have a Framework Phone,though i already have a smart phone LOL

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It is unlikely there will be any new products until Framework irons out the issues with the current laptop, and they are more likely to expand onto other laptops first.
But a few contributions to the idea, changing out a camera is ok, but I’m not sure about whether being able to completely remove the camera is necessarily a good thing. Secondly, Lighting is a proprietary Apple only connector, it would just be easier to follow the new EU Standards and just use USB-C.

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I personally don’t think it makes sense for Framework to enter the extremely competitive and saturated mobile phone market just yet… besides, there are already two popular players in the modular phone space: Fairphone and Purism.

Hmmm… I personally own a Fairphone 3+ and have had no need to open it or swap parts.

Most average consumers may not even be comfortable pulling apart their own device, let alone a phone with it’s much, much smaller and delicate parts. For these users it’s easier to let a repair shop carry out a fix or part swap.

You don’t need a modular phone to be able to replace a battery or remove a camera, although it being modular (and documented) sure does make it easier :sweat_smile:

I’m fine with a manufacturer only making spare parts available - modularity is not a requirement, unless they are aiming for a product that can be upgraded by the average consumer.

Lightning is a USB 2.0 connection, and also apple proprietary (as mentioned by @Water261 ) which in my opinion seems a bit dated now with how widespread the faster USB-C connector is.

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I certainly hope Framework keep out of the mobile phone market.

I want them to concentrate on what they are good at. When they are ready, they should move forward with new computer designs - such as larger screens and some of the many requests made by people here.

Also, Framework has rightly gone for some of the best parts in their design - such as a 1080p camera, still very rare in the laptop market. If they were to adopt the same standards in the mobile phone market, it would price the phone in the top flagship range, making it very much a niche product.

Lastly, it would be very difficult to offer bespoke phones in the same way as the DIY computer offer - to assemble phones to an individual order.

No, please keep away from mobile phones.

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I would agree with njf. Fairphone already exists, even though they STILL do not have a model intended for sale in North America, which seems just ridiculous at this point.

And while I agree with njf, I don’t mean that I never want to see them doing something beyond a laptop. I think their plan is to do something like that eventually. But I just think the modular nature of the Framework Laptop still has not been fully explored. I am using that modularity to make my own laptop, for example, and I am willing to bet many more have ideas of their own.

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Isn’t modular in smartphone dead? I am very excited for the technology but the market don’t think so.

Project ARA, Moto mod and LG G5 (friends) doesn’t work out.

Fairphone looks promising but it’s not upgradeable and no customization to the level that I’m satisfied. If I want foldable screen I’m out of luck.

If framework came out with modular concept like project ARA. Just take my money. I will buy dozen of components too thinking that I could swap components with my family and can sell in 2nd hand market. They could use same module for tablet since tablet is just a big phone.

More compromise version is they are doing something like fairphone but all of the components keep the same dimension so I don’t need to buy a new phone case, I can swap out higher capacity battery in the future. I can upgrade the board for faster SoC.

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I would be super down if I can still have the iPhone quality camera! Part of my job is social media and I can’t be out here looking like an RPG character :laughing:

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Oh, come on. Represent your 16-bit glory.

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A framework phone would be awesome but impractical. Something that might work though is a tablet. Depending on how small they can get it, it could work as a phone, once someone develops a GSM module. You can already install android on a regular computer, so with some tinkering you’d be able to do it. The camera would probably be built in and not a module, but then someone could make a module for a better camera when needed.

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The Framework 16 is just around the corner. I think now would be a good time for them to start working on a phone.
Personally, I wouldn’t mind a little extra size/thickness if I could repair it easily and upgrade it’s internal components occasionally.

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Maybe they’re already working on it …
Take the 16" Laptop, they only went public with the information once they had a working prototype.
And there is a thread somewhere here where FW is asking which electronic device they should tackle next, with phones coming up a lot.
So I’ll be watching out for it whenever Framework has another big announcement coming up : )

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I would also argue that they at least know that there is demand for a modular phone, as they asked the people at LTX about what they should build next and the two most requested things were, as far as I can tell by their mastodon post, printers and phones.

Here is the link to the post on mastodon:

But I am not sure how long it will take until the phone might come out, as it is much smaller and more complex in some points (As example many want it to be waterproof / water-resistant)

If you live in Europe, and you need a new kind of modular and definitely repairable phone, you might want to consider the Fairphone. If you do not live in Europe, then you might want to consider one of the newer, more repairable phones made by Nokia. Or you wait for FW :slightly_smiling_face:

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I would love a Framework-smartphone, which is build up from “modules” and therefore upgradeable.

So on the backside you would have (for example) 10 modules (5 left, 5 right). The upper modules are thought for cameras. So instead of having one big “camera-complex” you would have modules for each camera-module. So 4-6 modules could be used for camera-modules. And these camera-modules would then be upgradeable. The 2 modules below would be for RAM and system memory and SoC (i guess, that would be more difficult and probably not be possible in the first versions of a Framework smartphone).

And the lowest modules would maybe be not only on the backside, they would like go a bit over the bottomside, because it would be the modules for USB-port, headpohonejack and maybe speaker. Maybe you would do there 3smaller modules for 1 speaker, one USB-C and one headphonejack or another USB-C (like expansion cards, but i call them “modules”). Or you would pair 2 of them for each module. For sure the modules would not have to be all the same size. Maybe The SoC and RAM part would need to be bigger as camera-modules and so on.

On the display side there would be 2 modules (very thin modules). One on the upper side for sensors, speaker and front camera and one on the downside for fingerprint and maybe you place the second speaker there instead of on the downside (the backside-module). Then you could have 2-3 USB-C Ports on the lowest backside-modules. You could also split the two thin modules into smaller modules. So for being able to upgrade only front camera for example. And the display would be one big module.

The battery would be below the display-module. I guess that would be easier than below the backside-modules. So the “case” of the whole thing would be the middle. So you would have like a “frame” ( :wink: ) which is build from 3 parts . The backside with the back-modules and the frontside with the front-modules and a inner part for the battery (behind the frontmodules) and PCB (behind the battery, so between battery and back-modules).

I know there is fairphone, but it has bad batterylife and also it is not upgradeable at all in most parts most of time.

What do you think about it?

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As a preface, the smartphone market is extremely saturated and if Framework were to try to enter, it could easily sink their company. You would need a significant amount of capital for R and D as well as long-term software support for users. Also, many smartphone companies can sustain themselves because they ship hundreds of thousands to millions of units and only generate need to slightly markup their products from BOM.

I don’t think a modular phone is feasible in the way you are describing. Technically, smartphones are modular in the sense that many components are connected using ribbon cables/daughter boards (display, battery, charging port+speakers, cameras). The reason why we don’t think of them as modular is simply because they are often difficult for the average user to access.

A Framework-style modular phone might be thicker and heavier than current smartphones which would be a huge turnoff to a lot of people. Framework might also need to design a way to physically and electrically connect things together adding to cost. Another thing is modularity takes up space which could have been used for other things. For example, while I love the expansion cards, that space could have been used for a second cooling fan, more ports, a larger battery, or a second nvme slot.

But let’s say that Framework uses off the shelf parts and is able to offer a modular phone, the next thing that really determines the user experience is software. Optimizing the os for the hardware and supporting it for a long period of time is challenging and costly. Even more so when the hardware keeps changing.

Lastly, the phone would have to be cost competitive for what it’s offering. I think that’s what has contributed to Fairphone’s challenges in expanding marketshare. Why spend 700 euros on it when you could get an iphone or android phone with superior specs?

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Y’all might be interested in reading about Phonebloks and Project Ara.



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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonebloks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Ara

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Yeah, that’s were i get the idea from :smiley:

But this is sadly dead.

@TheTRUEAsian

Laptop market is also very saturated and still framework had success. Also you can get same specs like framework 16" for ~half the price or a bit more than that (WITH graphics card).

So at least this two points are the same in laptop-market.

OS is a point. They would have to do that, but they could start with a very basic Android. And as i said, SoC and RAM could be not replaceable for the beginning.

But sure, it would make it a bit thicker, but have a look on the picture Ibohn postet. I think about sth like that.

Framework does not have to compete with Samsung and co. They could not ship so many smartphones anyway at start. At start it would mainly be for “ecological” people and nerds (actually exactly the same as framework laptop).

But i agree, it would be more difficult than the framework laptop.

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Laptop market is very saturated but Framework was successful as they were on point with their target audience and in many markets, cost competitive. For example, when I bought my 12th gen in Canada, another option was the Microsoft Surface Laptop. For around the same price of around $1300 in total, I got a better processor (i5 1240p vs i5 1235u), 16 gb of ram vs 8, and 1 tb of storage versus 256 gb. Not to mention the repairability benefits. The product was not cheap and that’s why you don’t you don’t see Framework making cheaper laptops.

As for the picture that Ibohn posted, that’s only a concept from 2014 so it remains to be tested. A note is the article mentions the modules being held together by “electropermanent magnets” and magnets can affect the functionality of the product. Side note is the project is from Google and they have millions of dollars to through at whatever they want.

As for competition, by virtue of being in the market, you are competing with everyone else. It’s only natural to compare different products to find the best one for yourself. Look at the Framework 16 discussion post and Dave2D’s video, it’s a question of does the benefit exceed the cost? There’s also a subjective component of being able to service your own hardware.

As for your last point, I partially disagree. I think one of the reasons for Framework’s success was to save money by being able to service your device. Many people have been frustrated by the electronics industry by making repairs exorbitant (Apple). And it seems ridiculous that one component should ruin your whole experience or force you to buy another device. For example, I had a $800 Lenovo laptop with a failing battery. My only option for a replacement was to spend over $200 and wait who knows how long to even get it. But on a Framework, I can spend $64 or $95 on a replacement battery, get it in a week, and service it myself in 10 minutes.

Lastly, even if the cause is noble, if the costs don’t make sense, it won’t last. That’s partially why I believe Fairphone has an extremely small marketshare despite being in the game for 10 years. From an article, “Since its foundation, Fairphone has sold over 400,000 smart phones and last year alone sales were nearly 100,000. The biggest market by far is Germany where apparently all the major suppliers offer Fairphones, followed by France, Austria, and the UK.” Profile: Fairphone brings 'change to your hands' | Impact Investor.

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Saving money by repairability does not work, when the laptop is nearly double as expensiv as same specs laptops. Because you can buy 2 of them (in Europe the bigger one costs 2000$ without graphics card.).

So i don’t get the point why you defending framework for it’s high price, but on the other hand you say fairphone is overpriced (i agree). But Framework is too. It’s actually the same storry beside framework can offer upgrades, not only repair-parts.

Only possibility to save money is, if you can upgrade 5 years later or so. Then you don’t have to buy a new device. BUT the upgrade costs as much as a new laptops… :smiley:

Money saving is really not a point, where you can win arguments on Framework laptops. Sure, when you compare it to other overpriced stuff from Apple or Microsoft, then you can. But not when you compare it to the whole market. Maybe in the US, but not in Europe.

But to come back to the topic: I know this is only a concept. My idea is not thought to be made exactly in this way. It is only the core idea on making upgradeable parts in a smartphone. Fairphone does not offer upgrade-parts normally. Im not a huge fan of Fairphone, because their phones have all bad battery life ( nearly half of a iPhone or a NothingPhone or a S23 Ultra)

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I said in certain markets, the 13 inch laptop made financial sense and provided a cost break down. So my point isn’t invalid, it just depends on your perspective. As for the 16 inch, I don’t want to get into that as it’s a whole can of worms. I never weighed in on the cost of the 16 inch, I just offered a perspective on the debate on it.

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Ok, yeah i don’t remember what the price was at Start. But now the price is 1200Euro for the 13th gen and ryzen version. So for this price you get way better specs.

But i guess it depends on the viewing aspect, what is important and what spec is less important for a person. But i guess it has a better price/spec ratio than the big one i think.

But because you can upgrade for ~500, it could maybe be worth it, if you hold the device 12 years. Then it would be like if you would buy 1 devices each for 850$, which is ok (not good, but ok).

But anyway: Actually the topic was the phone, not the laptop ^^

So let’s go back to the phone:

The problem i have with the Fairphone is, that it is to expensiv (as you said). But if it would be upgradeable for same price, i would maybe consider to buy it, because you could upgrade it. I mean mainly camera (and for newer camera you need newer SoC). But battery life would need to be good, like the good ones out there.

But yeah, it is a long way till this could be possible. I agree with the point, that it is very difficult. But i dont agree with the point, that it would have not enough customers.