Anyone decide to return?

Framework intentionally pulled hardware that was cutting edge, in order to future-proof and minimize future waste. Unfortunately, they were a little too out ahead, in that a lot of components didn’t play well with Linux.

Caveat here; I have never owned a new laptop. Usually my boxes are “hey, Windows stopped working on this, you have it”, so Linux support is pretty trivial by then :wink:

Sure, maybe about 1-2 months ago (when a lot of discrete releases had fairly old kernels and the hardware wasn’t yet well-supported). But even then, rolling releases like Debian sid or Arch were decently okay in terms of things working (except maybe the fingerprint reader). The price you pay for using a discrete release distro like Fedora, Ubuntu, Mint, etc is that sometimes you have to wait a while to get support for newer hardware (how long depends on the specific distro).

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I’m returning mine.

I was initially worried about the HiDPI Linux compatibility issues. Now that I have the screen in front of my eyes, I can see that I was right to worry.

A lot of folks here seem to be OK with a slightly fuzzy screen. It’s great if that doesn’t bother you. Personally, that’s a deal breaker for me.

Here’s my experience.

  • Arch Linux, no I’m not switching distros.
  • Gnome 40, 200% way too big, a normal looking scale is 125%
  • At 125%, Chrome is fuzzy
  • At 125%, Firefox is fuzzy
  • At 125%, 1password is fuzzy

Even native Wayland apps like Gnome Terminal looked very slightly off.

Again, if you don’t mind the slightly off or fuzzy apps, then you shouldn’t have a problem with this laptop. But don’t fool yourself into thinking everything is going to look good. There will be issues.

Personally, this laptop isn’t usable for me until a normal DPI display is available. Or maybe if Framework can pick a resolution that looks good at 2x integer scaling.

Good luck, folks.

Have you tried just bumping up the font size a bit? That’s what I normally do rather than fractional scaling

(Note : future Framework owner here, waiting for my gadget fund to be replenished next year)

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I have a question. According to the Wayland based tiling window manager Sway’s wiki page - HiDPI - Fractional scaling: https://github.com/swaywm/sway/wiki#hidpi ,

Fractional scaling is supported but is not recommended. Your display does not have fractional pixels - and if you enable fractional scaling we cannot display your windows faithfully, and your image quality will be degraded. You should instead choose the integer scale factor appropriate for your display and configure your software’s font size as necessary. If you still want to use fractional scaling, it is as simple as e.g. output <name> scale 1.5.

Which part causes the HiDPI Linux compatibility issue by the fractional scaling? Does it come from the display hardware or software like window manager or device driver?

Not a chance–I really like my Framework. Running Manjaro Linux with Gnome and everything pretty much just works for me. The tweaks to get HiDPI looking good were minimal–less than 10 minutes. The one issue I had–a loose audio cable–took about five minutes to identify and fix. Repairable is good.

My personal current solution for 125% scaling is to just use native 1:1 scaling and set the font scaling factor (in Gnome Tweaks is one easy way) to 1.25. I’d suggest people who don’t like the fractional scaling blur for X apps to try font scaling on for size as an alternative.

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AIUI it’s just going to be less performant.

I’m pretty torn about returning mine. I love the laptop but I’m not sure if I can live with the issues considering the price.

I’m typing this on my replacement batch 6 unit. The first was also batch 6.
Some issues were more prevalent in either the first or second unit, and I’ll label them when that’s the case.

I’ve tested with Windows 10, Windows 11, Manjaro, Fedora, Ubuntu

Issues:

  1. Headphone jack white noise and powersave on/off beep.
    The white noise is constant. There’s a beeping sound when the sound card is powersaved after like 10 seconds of inactivity.
    Not a new issue, and it seems nowhere near being fixed. I like using headphones, and combined with the just meh speakers, it makes media consumption on the laptop very compromised. I didn’t pay > $1200 to hear a beep every time sound starts playing and 10 seconds after it stops.
    Honestly, I think this is a huge blunder, and it turns this laptop from feeling premium to feeling lacking basic features for the price. Audio components can sound good without being costly. I can only assume the new Tempo codec was a drop-in replacement without real QA testing.
    This issue was present in both units.

  2. The trackpad sucks.
    I’m not a macbook trackpad elitist. This trackpad regularly “rejects” touches like it’s doing palm rejection but it’s just one finger, and sometimes is a little floaty or jittery. I’ve tried it with and without PS2 mouse emulation enabled in the UEFI. It’s probably the dealbreaker here since it’s hard to enjoy using a laptop when the trackpad is unreliable. This issue is especially frequent if my hands aren’t absolutely bone-dry. I think this issue is a combination of the glass surface and the software being weird.
    I also notice the physical left-hand click makes a weird sound like it’s not totally solid. The click issue is improved by following the trackpad alignment guide, but not resolved.
    The unreliable touch input issue was present in both but worse in the replacement.

  3. The fan ramps up when I close the lid. It looks like this is partially an issue with modern standby and Windows. But I’ve never had this issue with other laptops so idk. But not being able to just walk away from the laptop or close the lid and let it charge when I’m trying to go to sleep is annoying.

  4. The screen hinges are super weak. There’s a video on reddit of someone lightly shaking the laptop until it falls open completely. Mine wasn’t that bad but it was close to it.
    This issue is present on the first unit but the second’s hinge is stronger, almost too stiff.

  5. The finger print reader (in windows 10/11) fails to read my fingerprint about 2/3 of the time, regardless of the finger, I’ve registered 4 fingers and they all have this issue.

  6. Keys on the keyboard often crunch in a weird way like they’re being bent or something, especially if they’re pressed off center or with higher than average force. This issue is just with the first laptop so far, and the replacement’s keyboard feels pretty good.

  7. Fractional scaling doesn’t always look great. On windows 10/11 it’s quite good so this is a minor complaint. When using linux it really restricted my options for DEs

  8. Battery life is good but not great.
    With low use I get about 7-8 hours, which is great.
    As soon as I add in a light to moderate workload it can drop quite a lot. That could be anything from browsing the internet in Brave or editing some code (not compiling).
    Using Windows 11 it’s pretty acceptable.

  9. The hinge creaks when the screen is opened all the way and back again. This is a small thing but it detracts from the premium feel.

So tldr:
My big issues are with the trackpad and the headphone jack. If those were fixed, or a fix is planned/detailed, I will happily keep the laptop.
This laptop really is quite premium and very impressive despite the issues I’ve mentioned. If those two issues have a solution, the other issues are either not such a problem in my replacement unit or not dealbreakers.

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I think the main point of Framework is that these issues could be fixed because the laptops can be repaired. I would be many upgrades will be available from the future either from Framework or other third parties.

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2 more cents:
I heavily debated cancellating my order. Glad I didn’t, no way it’s going back. Not perfect at all, but not glued together either. It’s a so-so laptop with big heart and flexibility. This laptop represents my personality.
Would I recommend it to family or friends? Likely never. I believe very few will find the trade offs worthwhile, just as I had my doubts even though I love the concept.
From reading the forums, seems like majority of the issues are related to linux.

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Unfortunately, a couple of days ago I made the decision to cancel my order (it was due to be one of the batch 8s in February).

An inefficient 4 core Tiger Lake CPU just won’t cut it for me. I’m really hoping AMD CPUs come out at some point this year.

Just set

in your ~/.Xresources file. Most GTK and Electron/Chromium apps uses that, I’d say 95% of apps are covered.

not at all!

the hardware is great, i ordered the kit and mounted the memory and ssd and the better wireless module, no problem there, the hardware convinced

on the software side, i use FEDORA35, the ui convinces and its fairly solid, what is a bit disapointing is the sleep mode, it drains the battery empty in no time … which forces the laptop to be connected to the grid when closed … not exactly what i would call a sleep mode (i am sure fedora will have a solution to that problem soon)

the other thing i am currently fighting with is BLENDER and the flickering viewport. even if the laptop is capable to handle the 3D it flickers … i hope there will be a solution to that OpenGL graphic driver problem soon …

but most of it is software issues not hardware and is based on my choice of OS, i am sure this would probably not happen on windows, i think the framework is fantastic and will improve over time … keep it up!

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im like 5-7 days to the end of my return period and they just announced a $70 discount on the model i bought. since i could do a return exchange, for the same product right now and get $70 back, im seeing if theyll just refund the 70 or give some store credit (i have some upgrades im looking at)

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Get in touch with Support, they probably want to avoid you doing this so see what they offer.

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I returned mine because i was unabe to get sound to my Sony TV when using HDMI, from Windows.

I really wish I’d returned mine. Instead, I didn’t get around to trying it within 30 days, didn’t use it after I discovered it was flakey, and then sold it at quite a loss.

Based on the way mine has behaved, I don’t feel the first release was good enough to be sold as ready for Linux. I tried Pop!_OS on it (both 21.10 setup with the community guide, and 22.04 with all the latest packages installed).

Power management just wasn’t up to scratch. Significant battery drain while asleep, and the reasonably high likelihood that it wouldn’t actually wake from sleep, combine to make it a non starter for me as the mobile computer that I’ll use for the next decade.

I was also seriously put off by the news that most of the extension cards drain power when not in use, on Linux. I believe this is fixed in the gen 12 boards? But still. Linux support wasn’t ready to ship.

Support told me that they recommend Linux users configure hibernate instead of suspend. That’s a big “no” from me.

I’m not exaggerating when I say “for the next decade” — my current laptop is a ThinkPad T430 from 2012, which is still great to work on, if a good deal heavier than modern machines (though the weight isn’t a major problem, exercise is good for us).

I was attracted to Framework because I expected it would enable me to generate less e-waste, and I wanted to support them in that. Unfortunately, it’s not there yet, and I don’t think they should be advertising it as if it’s fully Linux ready. Speaking as somebody who’s been using Linux since 1996, it just isn’t there yet.

Also, I didn’t think much of Framework’s trackpad. The keyboard wasn’t bad, but again, not as good as the ThinkPad.

I won’t trust Framework again for a while, and will be looking to get another Lenovo when (if) my T430 packs up.

This community forum needs the “Market” category like Fairphone does at https://forum.fairphone.com/ . Or people can sell it on eBay or etc.

I have a batch #1 Framework that I have run nearly every Linux distro on, at least to test. The honest truth is that Ubuntu and Fedora are the Linux distros that just work. Standby performance is MUCH better than on Windows when on Linux. Battery life in general seems better on Ubuntu 22.04 LTS, specifically to my case, at least.

On the contrary I have seen many other distros have a lot of problems. Since Fedora and Ubuntu work, I don’t believe this can be faulted to Framework.

The irony, of course, is that your T430 did not reliably run Linux until long after it was introduced into the market.

Just to be clear, you only tried Pop OS on it?

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