Dear all,
1st. I’m so glad that finally there’s an (almost) fully configurable device. A device to replace all other devices (2be).
2nd. But… there still improvement to be done. I’m still reluctant to order my framework DIY until the open topics are solved which are…:
→ No GPU option. I don’t want to just do ‘Internet’ or ‘Office jobs’. I want to
do photo/video processing and sometimes playing a game. All this with one(!) machine.
→ No alternative CPU option. Why Intel only and not AMD as well?
→ Hinge quality issues. I read from a lot of people that the hinge is not very stable.
This has for sure to be improved along with the option to have a non glare screen.
→ Last but not least a trackpoint option and everything I expect is available.
If the above is 90 percent solved then I definitely instantly will buy a framework.
Agreed – definitely a case of vocal minority. My hinges are and always have been fine.
It’s clear that -some- hinges are light (manufacturing tolerances) but luckily they are very easy to swap out, readily available as service parts (Framework has replaced for some without charge), and as mentioned there is a “stiff” version also available in the Marketplace if you prefer.
Haha sorry, it wasn’t my intention to make a dig at AMD, I’m just saying that Framework probably can’t afford a complete mainboard redesign right now (not to mention that AMD is generally less helpful with these things to my understanding), and there’s really not much reason to demand a AMD board, and it seems to largely be from blind company preference (which is fine, just doesn’t make sense). Ryzen 6000 chips are also facing severe shortages to my understanding, so that sadly doesn’t make it a great choice however good the characteristics of the chips are.
If it’s true that they are in contact with AMD that’s great news though! (Although I haven’t seen anything of the sort)
Framework is listed as Intel’s partners. Considering their size, I don’t think they would be able to care about so many SKUs.
I would really like a Framework with better iGPUs (but I must say Iris XE is very good compared to UHD graphics) but I guess give them time. Else even an ARC dGPU inside would be nice.
I’m not sure about that. There were quite a few reports on the internet about why specific manufacturers, like Sony with the PlayStation put down their vote with AMD.
And yes, I recognize that in these instances it was a much higher volume and the question gravitated around custom chip design, but still, to me, it seem to indicate a fundamental willing to work with their customers and provide support / custom solutions.
I might be incorrect, and things might have also changed since then.
If my memory serves, AMD does custom designs (i.e. PS5) like NVIDIA except AMD is more responsive.
If we are talking about just getting the chip, Intel would probably be easier. Intel has much better documentation compared to AMD for drivers and such.
Interestingly, Apple got CPUs from Intel but GPUs (custom ones if I remember correctly) from AMD (yet not CPUs). But that could be because only Intel had Thunderbolt+Quicksync then.
Yep, it has a track record like PlayStation, Xbox, Tesla mcu-4, and Intel has a track record of turning these down (there was an interview with an ex Intel CEO stating that he did turn down Sony, that’s why they went to AMD). It just feels like the corporate philosophy is to be open to players that seem to be small at the time.
In this class (for example 1165G7v5700U) the performance is similar from what I have seen but still tips to AMD. Intel is still worse overall but have become more competitive and “caught up” in that sense. The new RDNA2 iGPU is another leap Intel would need to try and catch up to. I just hope we have the best CPU/iGPUs to choose in future boards whoever makes them.
What is your definition of very good- it basically caught up to mobile Ryzen 5000 graphics… 6000 had a big leap forwards because they finally changed the architecture because Intel essentially forced their hand. Iris Xe is by NO means a bad iGPU if you compare it to others…
Make sure that’s due to the actual hardware and not drivers. Intel’s Windows graphics drivers are a bit notorious (see also: Arc driver issues) and basically requires using Linux to actually get the most out of what the hardware can do (…which, keep in mind, really isn’t that since we’re talking about integrated graphics, whether Intel or AMD).
But also remember that dual-channel is basically a requirement for any integrated graphics whether Intel or AMD (with the except of the lowest SKUs that tend to be bottlenecked by their minimal shader counts).
I’ve mentioned it elsewhere on this forum but my friend has a Sandy Bridge laptop and the integrated graphics was giving him literally low single-digit frame rates in an eduke32 game mod yet running the exact same thing on Linux Mint 19.x gave like 40fps.
Also fun fact, Vulkan on Linux is available for Ivy Bridge and Haswell but for Vulkan on Windows you need Broadwell at a minimum.
Lastly, Anandtech actually just recently benched the iGPU for the 12900KS which has only 40% of the total shaders of the i5-1240P though is clocked 19% higher and is using DDR5 RAM (I’d argue that the settings used were a bit overly low however!:
All of what you listed are coming out of their Semi-Custom/Embedded teams, which got traction originally since AMD was willing/needed to trade margins for wafer volume for console chips, but which has ended up as one of their strong suits/strategic pillars that has borne lots of fruit - the Steam Deck is another awesome recent result there.
PC/Laptop are a totally different part of the company, and sadly, it’s also different story. Not necessarily because AMD doesn’t want to support smaller companies I think, but that Intel historically just has had a lot more resources (business, engineering, supply, and just straight up money) to do board support and co-design. Intel Evo (nee Project Athena) is one big public example of this (AMD has recently launched a competing “AMD Advantage” program now, mostly focused on gaming laptops that use AMD CPUs + GPUs). Also, AMD has (rightly) focused on a lot on a couple Tier 1s (Lenovo, Asus, HP) with supply and support at the expense of smaller partners. I think this difference can best be illustrated by a couple experiences that I know that XMG has had in the past that they’ve talked about:
With their original VIA 15 (Tong Fang PF5NU15 chassis), they tried for over 2 months to get a 4K OLED panel working w/ a Ryzen 4800H board but ran into unsolvable issues with the AMD iGPU (if I recall, TCON related) and just didn’t get it to work. This would have been one of the only HiDPI (and OLED) Renoir laptops w/ upgradable RAM and no dGPU, but it simply didn’t happen.
First of all: Supply! Ryzen 6000 supply is very limited globally and our hardware producers only receive a very limited amount of Ryzen 6000 CPUs, which are not enough for different products. So they had to decide which products will get this Ryzen-H-supply and they decided to go for gaming laptops because it’s a bigger market compared to the rather niche category of non-dGPU laptops with high-end CPU.
Now, one could argue that Tong Fang is simply not a big enough ODM, but it’s worth noting that they’re not a tiny player. They’ve co-designed all of Intel’s gaming laptop chassis, and supply laptops for a huge number of boutique laptop OEMs around that world. There are Ryzen 5800U/H and Ryzen 6000 mini-PCs coming out in China now (not to mention all the Ryzen 6800U handhelds like the Ayas, GPDs, etc) so I have no idea how AMD have been prioritizing things there. At this point, where AMD is swimming in cash, has past Intel in market cap, and has excess wafer capacity, I really don’t know WTH they are doing. I would have bought a Ryzen 6000 if, 8 months post-launch, there was anything for me as a power user/developer (really, not the longest list of requirements: an upgrade from my 1st-gen PF5NU15, decent battery life and display, dual-SODIMM, works w/ Linux), but there simply isn’t.
Maybe they’ll get serious w/ Ryzen 7000, but from Linus’ callout in his update video, it sounds like AMD just doesn’t care enough, which is too bad.
