Framework 13 no startup after sudden breakdown

JakobH · October 30, 2024, 6:03pm

Hi everyone,

my Framework 13 11th generation broke down out of nowhere today. The battery was charged at about 70% at this time. Afterwards I could no start it up again. When I press the start button, it takes three seconds until it turns white, than it stays white for about 8 seconds before it turns of and stays of. The screen stays black, additionally the fan does not do anything. When I open up the cover, the red LEDs indicate that the keyboard/pad is taken off, so the CPU does get power from what I know.

Notebook Information:
Framework 13 11th Generation
CPU: Intel I7-1165G7
OS: Windows 11

Approaches I tried to fix the Issue without success:

Fully resetting Mainboard Stage
Fully Resetting the Mainboard State - Framework Guides
Switch RAMs (I have 2 8gb) from slot 0 to 1 and back, also just use one at a time.

Both did not solve the issue.

I hope someone has an Idea what it could be, I really need the laptop asap running.

Best regards,
Jakob

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amoun · October 30, 2024, 6:53pm

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Have you checked the CMOS/RTC battery? if you still use the original it may have died if not charged at least 6 hours per week. Over a month and it will die.

To see it the ML 1220 is recoverable you will have to let it charge for 24hours. You can prior to that check it’s voltage manually so see if it is well over 2.5V 2.8V should be fine.

if you find the Ml1220 is ‘dead’ Framework will provide a replacement or a module to circumvent this happening again.

Search for CMOS Battery 11th Gen | RTC | ML1220 etc.

JakobH · October 30, 2024, 8:42pm

Hi amoun,

thank you for your quick answer!

I just measured the voltage of the RTC Battery. I measured 2,9V, so the battery should be fine.
I have still the original one (bought the Framework in Feb. 2022). Ever since I am working on a daily basis with it, so it is more often charged then 6h a week.

Do you maybe have any other Ideas?

amoun · October 30, 2024, 8:45pm

Not at the moment, thinking about it

Me too. Batch 8 | Win 11 | 1165G7 | 16GB Ram

Any luck trying F2 to see if the BIOS shows,?

Is the screen actually black, not a glimmer of a backlight in a very dark room?

If it is only a screen them maybe an external monitor would work
If it’s a OS issue you could try Ubuntu on a USB if the BIOS is set up to do that.

pkunk · October 31, 2024, 3:25am

Hi @JakobH,

Your Embedded Controller might be stuck in a certain state. Presumably a reset of the mainboard would clear it, though it is a separate component on the board.

Things to try:

Plug it into a known good charger. Press and hold the power button for at least 20 seconds. Let go of the power button and unplug the charging cable. Let it sit there for a good minute. Then try pressing the power button once briefly and wait.
Alternatively you could try removing the SSD from the machine and see if it will at least POST.
Carefully disconnect the battery from the mainboard. Then try to power the machine on.
Carefully disconnect the display cable from the mainboard and plug in an expansion card to connect to an external monitor.
Try 2-5 above (basically putting the mainboard into a standalone state to see if it will at least come back to life.

If you have not contacted support you should get a ticket started as they are the best resource to help diagnose issues. Let us know how it turns out.

JakobH · October 31, 2024, 3:31pm

First thank you guys for your suggetions!

I have already contacted support and tried their suggestions before continuing with yours. I did sent a video of the error code which is 1-4-9-10 (Battery connected Check, CPU deassert sleep S4, Fan detected and spins up, cpu reached S0 state). The suggestions from support where:

Reset Fan and clean fan. Check connectors
Reset Battery and check connectors

Video that shows Issue: https://youtube.com/shorts/5uoWZiokYzM?si=q5RQny5czGoQ4-yA

After this the Issue changed a little bit, but is by far not fixed. When now the battery is connected, nothing happens at all when hitting the start button (not even button lighting up). Only when AC Connection with battery unpluged, I get the above mentioned error code when pressing the start button.

So the following tests suggested from you I had to do with battery unpluged and AC-Power connected.

@amoun: mine is batch 8 too with the same ram and cpu.
I tried to start it in a completely dark room, the display stays comletely black, not even a slight change.
As I can not reacht the bios, unfortunately I can not try it with ubuntu.
I also tried to run it with an external monitor, did not work either.

I forgot this one information: the Framework was connected via USB-C to an external Monitor when it broke down

@pkunk: I tried all the suggested steps, below you can see what happened.

1. Plug it into a known good charger. Press and hold the power button for at least 20 seconds. Let go of the power button and unplug the charging cable. Let it sit there for a good minute. Then try pressing the power button once briefly and wait.

Same behavior of the button as before while holding it down (3s till lights up white, than 8s on, than off). Did not fix the issue. Had to plug in ACPower again before the last button press.

2. Alternatively you could try removing the SSD from the machine and see if it will at least POST.

Tried that yesterday, unluckily did nof fix the Problem.

3. Carefully disconnect the battery from the mainboard. Then try to power the machine on.

Same Issue with error code 1-4-9-10 and short time button light up.

4. Carefully disconnect the display cable from the mainboard and plug in an expansion card to connect to an external monitor.

Did not change anything in behaviour, still error code 1-4-9-10

5. Try 2-5 above (basically putting the mainboard into a standalone state to see if it will at least come back to life.

The combination of 2-5 did also not work. Still error Code 1-4-9-10

Due to the test I thought that maybe the battery has an issue, but that makes no sense because:

The Framework does not start with disconnected Battery and only AC-Power
When the battery is connected (AC-Power disconnected) and the front cover is off, the red light next to the cpu are flashing, which means to me that power is availlable from the battery.

If anyone has any idea what I could try, please let me know. I will keep you guys informed what support is suggesting.

Best regards,
Jakob

amoun · October 31, 2024, 7:24pm

Given failures when the CMOS battery is ‘dead’ maybe you could check it is seated nice in the holder and if you have the means see if you can trace it’s 2.9V to ensure it is actually a working ML 1220

pkunk · November 1, 2024, 5:12am

Hi @JakobH,

Thanks for the feedback on what you have tried. I am inclined to think something may be wrong with the battery on the machine AND the fan has jammed/failed.

Maybe someone with the knowledge of the exact POST sequence can say if the fan failure will result in a panic/shutdown upon startup.

An older post talked about having to remove the coin cell battery to fully reset something when the 11th gen board locks up and no longer powers back on.

Word has it to be really careful as the little holder is more fragile the older it gets and the plastic can break off trying to get the battery out.

I would suggest leaving the cover loose (so you can see if the fan even spins), carefully disconnecting the battery, removing the coin cell battery, pressing the power button to fully drain any power possibly left, then reinstalling the coin cell and trying to reset the EC by holding down the power button.

Others mentioned when trying to get the 11th gen board into “standalone” mode it sometimes took 5-10 tries to get it to finally POST.

Though all of this is for nothing if the system will not get through the POST if it sees the fan is not present and does not spin up. Being as the display is not even initialized (you tried it in a totally dark room) says it is not even getting to that point and shuts itself down.

These were my thoughts when you said support suggested reset/clean fan; check connections (i.e. disconnect and reconnect it) as well as carefully disconnecting and reconnecting the battery (pins in battery connector can be bent somewhat easily from what I have read).

The difficulty of getting it into standalone mode without the battery presents its extra challenge in this situation if there is something wrong with the battery in the first place.

JakobH · November 1, 2024, 9:23am

Hi,

thank you all for your feedback.

short update:
After fully resetting the state machine 3 more time yesterday, at least the cpu knew the battery again. Error Code is now: 4-9-10 (CPU deassert sleep S4, Fan detected and spins up, cpu reached S0 state).

After this I tried the steps support suggested, what did not fix the issue.

1. Disconnect all expansion cards, chargers, RAM, SSD, input cover and main battery. Press and hold the power button for 20 seconds and then leave the device switched off for 15 minutes to allow the mainboard to discharge.

2. reconnect the main battery after 30 minutes(Please try W/Battery separately), SSD, RAM(Slot 0) and charger.

3. slowly press the switch to open the case 10 times and hold each press for 2 seconds. Release, wait until the red flashing on the mainboard LED lights up and then repeat this step.

4. press the SW1 button on the mainboard to start the system. You can use the screwdriver to press the button.
Alt screen width = 300

5. the BIOS settings are reset to default settings.
- Do this again with 1 RAM stick in channel 1 and channel 0 is empty. 6.

6. repeat these steps with another RAM stick\ (if available).

During that proccess I saw that the left LED is not flashing at all and that the black cover sheet of the mainboard has a little burned part right next to the extension card holder on the left hand side. See: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/K7XQmnNCp30
(Dissapointed in me not seeing that in the first place…)

Support told me to no work on the Framework untill they have more information about the Issue. I did send them pictures of the mainboard without the black cover (just pcb).
I hope my external monitor did not deliver an over current (as I also charce with the monitor) and damage the mainboard.

Here a picture of the mainboard:

I’ll let you know after support get’s back at me.