Well, the first point is written by DHH himself: As I remember London
He’s the author of this post. If you don’t even trust him on its own opinion…
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This topic is temporarily closed for at least 4 hours due to a large number of community flags.
Definitely, there’s room for the NetBSD, FreeBSD users wanting a more traditional Unix experience, the middle of the road people using Linux with Hyprland, the people using systemd and gnome, and even us oddballs who like playing with OpenIndiana, SculptOS, Haiku, and DragonflyBSD. All are welcome.
For context, i would like to point to the below post.
With that context provided, i am making this post because i believe outspoken withdrawal of financial support is necessary if i wish to support any chance for this to change.
Framework’s response to the above post is, in my opinion, absolutely unacceptable- to dismiss all further discussion of the matter as “a discussion that cannot be nuanced”, even as the original poster attempted to provide further nuance to the faults of the “big tent” approach paints the original poster in an inherently “unreasonable” light, and i would argue very intentionally.
The Paradox of Tolerance is a long-proven concept, and something that is exercised frequently in the open-source community due specifically to the behaviours of figures like the Hyprland developer. This is not “political”, it is necessary, and anyone who would say otherwise would not only tolerate, but support people who would be intolerant of others within the community. How long would it have been until i, a transfem person, been the one spoken out against by a major developer, only for them to later be financially supported by Framework? When you stand on neither side, you- unfortunately, perhaps, but still- support the oppressor. That is the fact of the matter.
Not to mention, there is nothing “political” about removing people from the community who ACTIVELY politicize software development by weaponising their platform to spread hateful beliefs. We remove people who inherently politicize this community.
It’s my opinion that this “big tent” theory acted as a dogwhistle to begin with, because the mention of it drew in droves of people who went on to outwardly support the “apolitical viewpoint” of a businessperson who is financially supporting software developers who politicize software development. Make that make sense.
While i do not fault the company for attempting to adopt a policy to support all open-source software development, to make such a display of not financially but also verbally supporting these figures on their social media, and then to- when questioned- dismiss and subtly besmirch the original poster, whilst providing no advice of a platform in which that “nuanced discussion” can be had, and invite so far bad-faith discussion on “political division” is incredibly disappointing, and as a result, i feel it necessary to provide my own outspoken withdrawal of any further support of this company, and i urge anyone affected by this controversy to create their own posts in addition to mine. Give them numbers. Tell them what they’re losing if they continue to cowtow to racists.
This is not intended for the community to comment on- because quite frankly, the community response to the post above gives me very, very little hope of “convincing” anyone that this behaviour is unacceptable. This community seems to be comprised largely of “centrists” who just sit on the fence and stand in favor of oppressors, and quite frankly, i post this full-well understanding that my response will be deemed “unreasonable”, “extreme”, and “political”, when this is not an “unreasonable” or “un-nuanced” discussion. Nuance was given, nuance was denied, and nuance was created through the bad-faith response to Nirav’s dogwhistle.
Stop supporting racists.
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I really hope Framework will do a total 180 and take a solid stance.
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It could be a perfect opportunity to ask the hyprland community to add a CoC! If they want funding, let’s give them an incentive to clean things up a bit.
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Hi there,
Just another voice in the crowd, from a simple Framework user and enthusiast pushing for more and more adoption of FW laptops as the IT teamleader from his company.
There is plenty of projects with inclusive or at least not explicitly discriminatory leaders and governances, that need sponsoring or highlighting.
It is okay to not be aware of everything. It is disappointing to not perform some basic due diligence when sponsoring and/or highlighting a project, but understandable since we all have much to do and there is only so much time in a day. Internet is a noisy place after all.
But it is straight out infuriating to invoke some kind of misguided tolerance when faced with material evidence of dangerous, anti-human rights stances from leaders and communities of sponsored or highlighted projects.
There isn’t a lot of other companies championing for more open technology out there. I would love to see Framework continue to grow and support a diverse, inclusive, and plainly human-rights abiding ecosystem. I don’t want it to be yet another project sinking in some bad faith tolerance for the most intolerant people there is out there. This so-called paradox has been solved years ago, maybe most notably by Karl Popper.
No matter the alleged technical quality or perceived usefulness of their production, we can and must do without these dangerous people.
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…all of this because (follows links, reads) an internet forum has a lax moderation policy?
I certainly am seeing bullying taking place today, and if we are counting numbers you can add my support to the victim’s side. BRB, off to buy a Framework Desktop.
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Hello there, what you are saying is either very ignorant or outright a straw-men argument.
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Hi, just signed up for an account and put in a pre-order for a new laptop to monetarily express my displeasure with this infectious style of cancellation and politicking that pervades spaces I would rather remain agnostic than religiously aligned.
Had you not brought up this topic, the prospect of purchasing one of these laptops would not have even crossed my mind. Consider the following: progressive messaging and demeanor actually achieves the direct opposite result of what it intends.
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I’d like you to consider which groups and individuals in the open source space this position benefits. It’s entirely possible that you are giving support to people who act in bad faith because of a policy like this.
My continued thoughts can be found in an email to support.
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calling for people to be killed and or severely harmed, does not stop being calling for people to be killed or severely harmed just because you launder that through the state, and the ones doing said harm, work for the government and call it a “punishment” and is legitmized through “laws”
hope this helps…
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don’t care, didn’t ask
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you want it to be agnostic and non-religious? have i got bad news about the fascists and human rights violations your supporting (mainly, how extremely religiously charged they are)
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You literally did ask.
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actually, the idea of a “gender soul” is one exclusively held by transphobes like you, and is highly religious; it plays into christian biblical roles; biological science on the otherhand, recognizes the material reality of hormones on sex charactersitics. how changing said hormones changes said characteristics, and the vast diverse nature of said characteristics in people;
nice try though <3
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Hi, I’ve been a long term supporter of Framework and its goal as a company. I’m pretty disappointed with the recent sponsorships of horrid people, and I’m sure when organizations who have already dealt with aforementioned people see that Framework has sponsored them… They’re likely less keen to work with Framework in the future.
Additionally, a big tent cannot exist if someone has a lighter and repeatedly attempts to light aforementioned tent on fire.
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