Hotspot issues on the back. Does Framework need to make improvements here?

I have already contacted support, and they are aware of the issue. Nevertheless, I am posting here as well, and I would appreciate it if others could chime in to say whether they are affected by this problem—especially those with a dedicated GPU (RX 7700S & RTX 5070).

In principle, every device is affected; while units without a discrete graphics card are less impacted, those with one are affected much more severely. So, what exactly is the issue?

I have recently been looking closely at the cooling system of the Framework 16.

Here is what happens with my device: The bottom panel gets extremely hot, particularly when gaming with the dedicated graphics card. At times, it becomes too hot to touch.

This hotspot first appears on the left side (when looking at the device from above).

This is the area where the motherboard’s voltage regulators are located and where power is distributed to the system.

After 15–20 minutes, the heat spreads across almost the entire bottom panel.

I have never experienced this kind of behavior with a laptop before.

What is the problem, and what is causing it?

As soon as the CPU and GPU are under heavy load and the system draws an average of 180–200 watts of power, the voltage regulators generate significant heat. A small portion is absorbed by the heatsink’s metal plate (which, in my opinion, is far too small and thin).

The remaining waste heat dissipates into the PCB. Hot air then accumulates between the underside of the PCB and the bottom of the chassis, with nowhere to escape. Consequently, the bottom panel heats up to temperatures like these:

These temperatures were reached after running FurMark and Cinebench R23 simultaneously for about 15 minutes. I attached the temperature sensor to the underside of the chassis, right where the hotspot forms.

I have used many laptops in my life, but I have never encountered such high temperatures on the bottom of the chassis as I have with the Framework 16.

The problem here is that the hot air has absolutely no way to escape the chassis. There are no ventilation slots, nor can the fans extract the air. This creates a heat buildup that has a detrimental effect.

The fans are installed in such a way that they only exhaust air from the ends of the motherboard heatsink’s heat pipe; the backs and rear sections of the fans are blocked off. This is partly due to the design and has a detrimental effect.

To improve this situation, two things need to be done:

1: An attempt should be made to develop a more robust or improved heatsink capable of absorbing more heat—particularly from the voltage regulators—for instance, by using a thicker metal plate or heat pipes that route directly over the voltage regulators. I do not understand Framework’s approach here at all, given that in virtually all other laptops, the entire power delivery system is actively cooled by the heatsink.

2: The bottom panel needs to be designed with ventilation slots to allow hot air to escape the chassis, thereby at least slightly lowering temperatures. There is a case available that allows the motherboard to be used externally.

This is what its underside looks like:

The bottom panel of the Framework 16 should be designed the same way.

Framework therefore needs to take action to address these issues.

1 Like

I actually think this is a fancurve issue, where the default curve is not aggressive enough.

If you run the community made fancontrol app found in these forums, you can set a slightly more aggressive curve which almost totally removed the hotspot under load for me.

1 Like

For whatever it’s worth, I’ve overhauled my Framework’s cooling and have seen my CPU boost to as high as pulling over 100W under load. Even in a game like TF2, where my dGPU and CPU combined are pulling a total of ~70W, the underside area you’ve mentioned still gets hot. I agree that this could likely use more cooling on the underside, especially since the battery is in that area. However, I don’t think more heatsink or fans in that area will address this, as even with CPU and GPU maxed out my fans don’t need to run at 100% RPM (thanks to the modifications I’ve made), so I have extra thermal cooling capacity left over and my bottom still gets hot. … … on my laptop!

@Scale_Hardwarebox_De that’s a fascinating case you’ve shared, I’ve actually considered making this modification to my machine and adding some optional fans I can manually control to the bottom as a means of cooling the rest of the chassis (especially back when I was getting STAPM errors). I fear that so much reduction would greatly reduce the rigidity of the laptop though, which is already quite flexible for my taste. That wouldn’t necessarily stop me from doing the mod though, as I could just print an external frame that clips around the device and adds that structure back in… the main thing that’s been stopping me is not having an easy way to make the cuts look as clean as they are on that rig.

If you look around on the forums, you’ll find people with issues around STAPM overheating, RAM over heating, and etc. I think those all stem from what’s essentially a “the whole device gets hot” issue, even if the CPU/GPU are kept cool like mine.

Could be the reason why yesterday my nearly 8 month old RX 7700S suddenly died under heavy load…

Posted my lspci output - I am running Linux - in the second post of that thread in case someone is interested what a dead GPU/Expansion Bay looks like in practice:

The PCI Express bridge on the mainboard fortunately seems to be healthy (also according to ChatGPT which helped a lot with my diagnosis along the way) but can’t connect to anything downstream…

The FW16 definitely gets hot on the bottom, but it isn’t the first “gaming” laptop that I’ve had that has done that. I do think that it tries to use the chassis a bit too much to try and cool the system and the cooling could definitely be improved. I think if that heat could be better transferred to the heatsinks the fans could probably dissipate it just fine. I’ve noticed while gaming my fans ramp up quite a bit, but all I feel coming out of it is cold air. So there seems to me that there’s an issue of transferring that heat where it needs to go.

2 Likes

This has absolutely nothing to do with the fan curve settings. You can adjust the fans however you like, but the temperature won’t change. The back of the motherboard and the underside are completely isolated from the rest of the cooling system.
The fans are located at the rear within the expansion bay module. Most of the air is exhausted out the back, while a smaller portion flows out the sides. At a rough estimate, I’d say 70% of the air exits the rear and around 30% the sides.

@TechPriestNhyk has already come up with some good potential solutions using 3D-printed parts.
There is definitely a design flaw in the underside here that urgently needs to be addressed.

1 Like

Uh, I’ll just agree to disagree here then, since I no longer have this hotspot with fancontrols alone…

Good luck then? I would note, with the modular design of the 16, the bottom plate is much more structurally important than most other laptops, probably related to why there’s no cooling cut into it. I would caution being careful about cutting if you plan to DIY

1 Like

To me this is partly a result of space constraints and partly the fact that the bottom is made out of a magnesium alloy.

My previous laptop (also Mg) would heat up enough to melt candles:

The issue with magnesium alloys used in laptops (e.g. az31) is that compared with aluminium they have relatively poor thermal conductivity, so more heat gets trapped in there and eventually seeps through, creating more focused hotspots than aluminium would.

I see it as a (literally) low hanging fruit in terms of how cooling can be improved, e.g. via this:

https://pl.aliexpress.com/item/1005008430356486.html?pdp_ext_f={"sku_id"%3A"12000056012593265"}&sourceType=1&spm=a2g0n.wish-manage-home.0.0&gatewayAdapt=glo2pol

Of course that will necessarily make the laptop less portable, so it’s a tradeoff.