I think you are just overreacting to the inevitable amount of criticism from users that aren’t getting a resolution in what they would think is a timely manner. It’s a public forum, not a forum for experts in the field, so maybe don’t shut people down in the only place they have to vent about an issue that no one in their immediate circle would even care about.
I only seem to recall any mention of this thread being only for data collection in the past few days.
I can actually give some information that the Framework laptop might have some path to charge the RTC battery from the main battery.
I was able to reach the negative pad for the RTC battery holder with the battery inserted, so I ran some tests. The following should not be attempted by anyone who isn’t willing to break things on their laptops.
While the laptop is unplugged from the wall, and the battery is seated in the mainboard, I was reading 2.58V from the RTC battery. Upon turning on the laptop, the voltage jumped to 2.77V. I then turned off the laptop, and plugged in the charger, and saw a voltage of 2.75V on the RTC battery holder.
Obviously, I can’t say with any certainty that it is charging the RTC battery an appreciable amount while it is unplugged and turned on, but it gives me hope that they will be able to add in the path from the main battery at idle in firmware.
Does Framework have the resources for it though? The two firmware engineer roles are still waiting to be filled…it’s been vacant for quite some time now.
It’s almost as if the competitions have been keeping the firmware engineers to themselves…and indirectly trying to stop a startup from maturing.
It seems that when Framework hires new people, they announce it on their Linkedin page. But Framework may still be looking for the firmware engineers as I couldn’t find the announcement there.
It would more likely be a function of when the laptop is OFF the ML 1220 is supplying power to the CMOS and then when the laptop is switched ON the main battery takes over and the ML 1220 is disconnected hence it’s voltage recovers. This is why there is ‘guidance’ to remove the ML 1220 in extreme cases to allow it to recover before it will power up with mains.
oh, ok. Well, let’s wait then.
I think the current situation is that the CMOS will not charge from the internal battery only from external power. Thus if you have the battery charged but left it on the shelf for, say, 2 month the CMOS battery will die and you will have a bad time.
Which is very stupid, but, not terrible (as in, you can at least charge it under certain circumstances)
I think somewhere they mentioned a “trickle charge” by plugging a 5V charger (NOT aUSB-PD charger) and have the CMOS charged up.
2.5V under load is definitely bad. 2.77V is still bad.
https://industrial.panasonic.com/ww/products/pt/coin_rechargeable_lithium/models/ML1220
Someone already linked to it. Interesting.
Anyhow the specification said that the standard drain (for the battery) is no more than 30uA. If framework is right on the edge (e.g., 28uA), then a cheap battery will quickly die (or fail) as it’s not up for the job.
I think the 2.8-3.2V mean that if the battery drops below 2.8V (unloaded) you need to get the battery charged.
Can/will Intel patch it? Microcodes?
Perhaps it’s also an answer that requires patience.
The same info on Panasonic has been posted twice before 
The 2.8 to 3.2 is the charging voltage so 2.8 is fine.
Have found this from Nkon to show 2.5 is the generally accepted operating voltage
Characteristics:
Stable operating voltage of 2.5 V. Able to be charged at 2.8V. Low self-discharge and long cell life. Self-discharge: Approx. 2% per year at room temperature.
Panasonic ML1220 - 3V - Rechargeable batteries | NKON
Update on the viable voltage of the ML 1220
It could be that 2V is around the cut-oof as looking at the graph [Dischrage characteristics] the voltage hovers around 2.5V then 17mA/h stated capacity coincides with around 2V.
This has already been answered. They cannot.
Looks like my RTC battery died after about 18 days (following 24 hours of charge time) with 2 hours of AC power while shutdown at around the 14 day mark. I booted the laptop twice within that 18 day window and had about 15 minutes of use each time.
When framework wouldn’t boot, I connected AC and was able to boot after a long bootup process and remaining main battery was 60%. Windows had the date and time of the last time it was booted, 4 days prior and wouldn’t sync or connect to secure websites.
I’ve installed the NetTime open source SNTP utility from timesynctool.com as a mediation effort for the Windows time issue being such a PITA.
The struggle is real (someone else posted this on Youtube):
Well, the behavior of the laptop in this video doesn’t seem to be what happens when the RTC battery has been drained. If that were the case, it would have either turned on after being plugged in, or not had any charging or debug lights at all.
Actually, what’s not known / documented is how long does the RTC battery needs to maintain / supply voltage for during this startup maneuver (?).
The general instruction from Framework seems to say, leave the 5v / dumb charger plugged in for a few minutes. i.e. It’s not just a matter of the RTC battery needing to supply some minimal voltage while the power button is pressed at 0.000 second. But it seems that the RTC battery actually needs to be able to continue to supply that minimal voltage for some duration during that power up sequence.
i.e. I suspect that the RTC battery has not been charged that few-more-minutes enough to complete the power up sequence such that it can switch RTC power source from coin battery, to continue to be charged by external power.
For more data points - it’s been 23d since I last used my laptop (just to perform the turn-on test I described at the time). It hasn’t been plugged in since then, either.
Laptop turned on fine without plugging it in and currently has 42% main battery level.
Moderators (@2disbetter @Fraoch @Mirage),
I have a suggestion. Shall we change this thread or another thread Laptop won't power on unless i plug in AC power 's first comment to the wiki, changing the thread title a little bit?
While we have nrp’s comment to summarize this issue, Viability of an ML 1220 rechargable battery for RTC | CMOS - #43 by nrp, I think it’s beneficial for users to update the summary day by day. This issue is impactful enough to summarize.
Just chiming back in to say that I have not forgotten this issue. Just today, after a few weeks without using my laptop I tried to turn it on to see if it would still work before I took a trip, and guess what? It didn’t.
Now I have to plug it in until just before I leave for my trip to make sure it will actually work while I am away from home, and won’t necessarily have a place to charge the laptop.
This laptop does so many things so well, yet one of the few things it can’t do well is absolutely nothing, and Framework doesn’t seem to want to do anything to fix it.
Buying a car type charge that can connect to any 12 ~ 24 V supply may help ??
I use the following as I reside off grid with 12V solar
LinkOn
https://www.amazon.co.uk/LinkOn-Charger-MacBook-Lenovo-Samsung-Carb-84W/dp/B085Y8GGGS
Unfortunately, this won’t help in my case, as I will be on my feet all day, not in a car. Had I not checked yesterday, I would have had to take time at the beginning of the event I’m going to, to turn on my laptop at the beginning of the day, and hoped the battery lasted until I was done working with it, which is unlikely.
It’s unusual to find an event, even a field festival, that doesn’t have charging facilities. They did when I went out in the late 90’s
It’s not that the place I’m going doesn’t have places to charge devices, I’m going to be constantly moving from place to place with no time to plug in my laptop just to turn it on. That would waste enough time to inconvenience the other people I will be with. Now can we stop arguing whether or not I know what I’m talking about?
