Framework Laptop 13 Pro WITHOUT touchscreen?

Any chance we get a 13 Pro without a touchscreen?

Honestly I don’t know any heavy users that use it on a daily basis . I saw some requests for it in the forum (regarding regular 13) but adding it as the only option on the Pro is weird.

I have high hopes that we’re going to get a non-touch option with Pro specs, without having to buy separately or buying a regular one and upgrading it.

What do you think? Am I overreacting? Would you get a FW Laptop 13 Pro without a touchscreen even if it was only a few bucks cheaper (50-100$)?

7 Likes

the advantage of a framework is that you can pick whatever pieces you want, of course it would be nice if Framework sold the pro chassi configurable with any screen or motherboard you like.

You can buy a bottom upgrade kit, including the pro battery and input cover, and add whatever motherboard, and screen you like. no promises it’s cheaper though.

2 Likes

I was thinking the same thing. I don’t like fingerprints on my screen. And being colorblind, the 100% rgb doesn’t mean too much either. maybe when I get it I can sell the touch screen on the forum. I did wonder if you can use the touch screen on a regular framework 13 - and the touch still work. seems like there would be a connector difference, but I don’t know.

1 Like

You can. Same connector.

2 Likes

That’s actually part of my problem, I want less but I need to pay more to have it.

Anyways, I just wanted to throw this out there to see if anyone agreed and I’m pretty sure framework listens to this forums so it’s worth the shot haha

3 Likes

Built in to buying a framework is to paying a bit more, I consider it worth it; because I get something much closer to what I want, and something I can fix on my own. Rather then wait on slow warranty repair, that in my experince won’t even fix the issue.

The reason why Framework is more expensive, in my opinion, is the lack of scale. Asking for lower scale would likely increase prices. Every sku adds costs, it’s absolutely necessary to steer people into a handful of well crafted configurations that satisfy most customers needs, too keep scale up.

all manufacturing is about keeping the factorys busy, to maximize return on capital investment. Scale also allow to spread fixed cost over as many units as possible.

2 Likes

We have a lot of compatible parts in the ecosystem now. This means that the number of possible combinations should be in the thousands for the base laptop (what’s being assembled in the factory, not the parts that are added to the package later, like expansion cards) if not more.

How we differentiate each “base laptop” is by creating different SKUs for them. For the DIY Framework Laptop 13 Pro, we have 3 options based on the processors. Everything else is added to the package later (and installed by the customer).

When it comes to the Prebuilt, it gets trickier. We have different SKUs for different processors. We also have different SKUs for the operating systems, one for Windows and one for Ubuntu. They are preloaded, which means they need to be different SKUs. Just by adding OS selection, we have doubled the SKUs. Instead of Ultra 5 and Ultra X7 (2 options), we now have 4 options (Ultra 5 with Windows, Ultra 5 with Ubuntu, Ultra X7 with Windows, and Ultra X7 with Ubuntu).

But we also have language options. Prebuilt input covers are installed by us, not the customer. Let’s say that we want to add US English, German, and French options for all available SKUs. It means that we would need to triple the number of SKUs to manage (12). If we want to add 5 languages, it would mean that we would have 5x the SKUs to manage(20)

Some people are interested in a Silver option for Pro. That would also double the number of SKUs, every version x2, one for Graphite and one for Silver.

And if we add a non-touchscreen option for every single SKU we are managing, yes, that would also double the number of SKUs we are managing.

Basically, any “option” we add to the base laptop that is built at the factory would multiply the number of physical SKUs to manage. This means that certain combinations would often be out of stock, the cost of managing these SKUs would be very high, and customers would have an even harder time deciding what to get in the configurator. And if we make these options available only under certain conditions (let’s say only for Ubuntu Ultra X7 but not for Windows 11 Ultra 5), it would mean that the configurator logic would become very confusing. Each selection would block you from choosing something else, making the configurator experience even more confusing.

Giving freedom to choose is something we believe in, but when you have thousands of possible combinations (what if I want a Prebuilt Framework Laptop 13 Pro with an Ultra X9 processor, a Framework Laptop 13 top cover, original glossy display, silver input cover, orange and gray colorway keyboard but in Japanese, a Graphite touchpad, 16 GB memory, 8TB storage, Ubuntu installation, and a red bezel?), we have to draw the line somewhere and focus on what’s requested by the majority of our customers. This is based on community feedback, post-purchase surveys, and combinations that make sense (like more powerful processor options having more RAM and higher storage capacity on prebuilt). There is no possible way for us to support all combinations.

But here’s the thing: if you are looking for something very, very specific, you can definitely build your own laptop from marketplace parts. Like Zoe said, you can get the bottom cover upgrade kit, a mainboard of your choice (along with compatible SSD, RAM, and Wi-Fi card), a top cover of your choice, and a non-touchscreen display, and build your own semi-pro laptop. This is definitely an option. However, it’s going to cost you more because it’s not the traditional way (i.e., ordering from the configurator).

Basically, you can either order from the configurator (cheaper) or select each part and do a custom build (which may cost more if you choose mostly Pro parts), but you can’t have your cake and eat it too. Hope it makes sense.

6 Likes

I just don’t touch the screen. Tadaa…non-touch. :sweat_smile: (Really, I have a ThinkPad x13 with touchscreen…but I actually don’t touch it…)

To me, the touchscreen option makes sense. If the panel is used by someone else or if my use case changes over time, I don’t need to get a new panel. This saves the material and environment. The ‘part’ has flexible use cases over time…making it ‘useful’ for longer period.

4 Likes

The physical touchscreen part of the touchscreen is likely extremely cheap compared to the rest of the thing, the expense is in design and setting up the production line. Having one with and one without touch would basically mean 2 custom screens while the price difference is so small that you would need huge volumes for it to make sense.

Some manufacturers may still do it just so they can have artificial product segmentation though but that would be out of character for fw.

Edit: Depending on the yields they may have some displays that have non-working touchscreens but are otherwise fine that they could sell at a discount to non-touchscreen users like us though.

1 Like

I still think it would be nice with a partpicker like tool.

It’s quite easy to feel lost in all the options, a tool to help narrow down compatible parts, and make sure you have a complete system at the end. Ofcourse such a system would be for people that comfortable building a laptop from parts.

You could even steer people to a guide, that go through each part of the process, from picking the parts to building the computer.

1 Like

I don’t think you might be over-reacting but I do think that the budget for developing a custom screen was limited and they wanted to target the biggest possible set of users’ need so that everyone fit in.

I don’t want to touch any screen never-ever, but I understand this decision and I am happy to turn off the touch side of the screen to make a no touchy - no touch one.

It also would be nowhere near 50$ cheaper without touch, nevermind 100.

Yeah, I absolutely do need a non-touchscreen version. Not because of the price, but because of the quality differences between touch and non-touch screens.

Framework is of course absolutely free to make whatever choices they wish, but I would appreciate if they are not going to support that configuration, they would make an official comment about not supporting it so I can shop elsewhere. Perhaps @Destroya’s comment was exactly that?

I wasn’t aware there were such significant differences as to make it an absolute dealbreaker for anyone.

If I recall they said this uses in-cell touch. That doesn’t have a separate digitizer layer. I know older tech with separate layers is known to impact clarity and transmittance.

1 Like

Welcome to the community!

When you say “not going to support that configuration” I assume you just mean when purchasing a new FW 13 Pro, a non-touch screen isn’t an option in the configurator. I believe that is, and will remain, true. Adding an extra display option would double the total, unique configurations they’d have to support. But just in case you mean in general: All of the previous, non-touch display options for the FW 13 are compatible with the new Pro laptop. Both the original glossy display, the updated matte display, and the 2.8k matte display. All are non-touch. If you bought a FW 13 Pro with the touch-screen, I’m sure you could find someone on the forum willing to trade you their non-touch screen, and possibly even add some money to the exchange. Or you could buy one of the non-touch options new and sell the touch screen outright.

As for touch screen quality, I guess I could imagine a scenario with two displays where everything else was otherwise identical, the touch screen might be a couple percent dimmer or lower contrast because of the gubbins that make the touch work. But in practice, I don’t know that you can necessarily say that a touch screen will always be worse than a non-touch screen. I think if a company wants to make a great looking display, it will look great, touch or not. And if they make a cheap, poor quality display, it will be poor quality, touch or not. I don’t know if you can say some machine will have a better display, simply because it’s non-touch, as compared to the display on another device, because it’s a touch screen. There are a ton of factors in play (brightness and evenness of backlighting, contrast, color gamut, color accuracy, resolution, etc.).

Some of the best displays I’ve seen on various devices I’ve used have been touch screens. I’m not saying that is because they were touch screens. It’s simply because the company wanted to put a high quality display on their device, and they just so happened to also want it to be touch capable. And to that, from what they’ve said, the new display on the FW 13 Pro could very well be their best looking display yet. 700 nits peak brightness, 100% sRGB coverage, high contrast, 20-120hz variable refresh rate, and per-panel color calibration.

When I was shopping for a cheap Chromebook a few years ago, the optional touch screen on the model I was looking at was a much nicer looking display, simply because it was a nicer display. I got the touch-screen option because it was higher quality, not because I cared about touch. The non-touch option looked worse because it was a cheaper, lower quality display.

Either way, I hope you are able to get what you want and it works for you (Framework or not). I just think there are a lot of factors to consider when it comes to display quality, and touch vs. non-touch would probably be at the bottom for me.

Cheers!

6 Likes

Ah. I wasn’t aware that touchscreen had improved that much, especially with In-Cell technology. I’ll have to reconsider my earlier dramatic stance on this.

Thanks for the correction!

2 Likes

Hey, nothing wrong with having a preference. If display quality is of utmost importance to you, it’s possible that the FW 13 Pro won’t be your first choice, touch screen or otherwise. For instance, the latest XPS 14 has a similar resolution (also touch capable) and is slightly dimmer, but it’s an HDR tandem OLED with 100% P3 color gamut. Or the Macbook Pros (non-touch) with their mini-LED backlight and wide color gamut. Both of those are also glossy screens, which you may or may not prefer over the matte display on the FW 13 Pro. Just as a couple examples.

But if you prefer a Framework for other reasons (as I do), then I would say the touch screen on the 13 Pro has a good chance to be their best looking display. A tiny bit of sharpness and contrast is likely lost due to the matte display vs. a glossy one. But for me, personally, there are so many instances where reflections and glare are annoying, so I prefer a matte screen overall.

5 Likes

mannn i so agree. I posted here a week ago thinking about the same problem— 13 pro, but WITHOUT the haptic. my post didn’t gain as much traction (sadly) but i guess mine is asking this PLUS a different question whether the option can even exist, since for this question you could technically still achieve this combo.

as the haptic touch pad is a part of the new input cover, which is necessary for the new battery, I don’t know what a pro chassi without the haptic touch pad would be. At most it would be the new bottom cover, and screen, which is already confirmed to be compatible with the old chassi.

The advantages I can see of such a setup is the new expansion card lock, the new graphite colour way*, and the more rigid cnc bottom.

*Obviously the input cover will be miss matched.

the battery! :smiley:

1 Like