Glad to hear your experience was much smoother sailing.
Here’s all the things they had me do after I filled out the initial contact form, again taking three weeks with multiple days between each response.
First email:
Please provide the link where you have compared the results of your Cinebench multi-core benchmark.
Please send us a screenshot of your Cinebench multi-core benchmark result for documentation.
Please provide us with the model and specs of the RAM and SSD you are currently using for documentation.
Please send us a screenshot of your laptop task manager performance for documentation.
Second email:
Are you using any external hubs/docks/monitors/eGPU or third-party power adapters? If so, can you provide the make and model specifications of these devices?
Is the issue present when the laptop is powered by the battery, the AC, or both?
What are the steps you already tried to fix this issue?
Try performing the simple troubleshooting steps below and see if there are any changes in terms of the result in Cinebench.
Remove all the expansion cards on your laptop. If it is running normally, then insert the cards one at a time to check if a specific card or bay is causing the issue.
Can you try performing mainboard reset?
-Plug in the system to AC.
-Remove the Input Cover.
-Press the chassis open switch in the lower part of the RAM slot (encircled in yellow), you must press it slowly, so press for 2 seconds. Release, wait for the red blink on the Mainboard LEDs. repeat.
You may also try to perform a RAM shuffle. Please follow the guides below since you are utilizing 2 sticks of RAM. See laptops behavior.
RAM 1 to channel 0, no RAM on Channel 1
RAM 1 to channel 1, no RAM on Channel 0
RAM 2 to channel 0, no RAM on Channel 1
RAM 2 to channel 1, no RAM on Channel 0
RAM 1 to channel 0, RAM 2 on Channel 1
RAM 2 to channel 0, RAM 1 on Channel 1
Third email:
Can you try to shutdown the laptop unplug the AC, wait for 2 minutes, replug the AC, turn the laptop on, and re-run Cinebench r23 while HWinfo is open https://www.hwinfo.com/download/
Kindly show the CPU core temps while showing the CPU package power.
Make sure to check the list below before running Cinebench r23:
enable best performance in windows
make sure to use 180w power adapter
fully charge battery
Run Cinebench R23 multicore and record with HWinfo to see temps and power. Share us the screenshots and results while and after the benchmarks
Fourth email:
May we ask if your Operating System is a clone or if you are using an SSD with Windows 11 transfer from another system?
To confirm, If the Cinebench R23 was running when you captured screenshots of HWinnfo? Could you please screenshot the HWinfo while the cinbench r23 is running?
Could you also confirm which port you plug the 180W power adapter? Could you please try plugging in the 180W power adapter on a different port and run Cinebench R23 again?
Sixth email:
After carefully reviewing the submitted photos and troubleshooting, we’ve come to the conclusion that there is a need to replace the Mainboard.
(Seventh thru tenth emails just related to the replacement process, no big deal here)
Eleventh email:
Could you please take a clear picture of the mainboard showing the bent?
Could you also take a picture of all the laptop sides? Kindly see the photo attached for your reference:
My first Email after the Website Contact Form had been your first 5 Emails compacted and reduced to the necessary.
This indicates for me, they had reviewed and streamlined their Process.
My first email was in German, but it was free translated the following:
Did you clean your Fans?
What Program is running when it happens
Did you try HWInfo and HWMonitor to check how hot the CPU gets under that Circumstances
Did you use the Framework 180w Charger or a ThirdParty one?
Did you try to remove or change the IO Cards
What OS do you use and if Linux what Kernel?
Which Bios Version are you running.
I provided everything and the next Email was, that i will get RMA’d.
Edit*
As we speak i got my Order Confirmation for the Replacementboard. Last Monday i filled the Contact Form. I must admit, thats pretty fast.
They haven’t learned. Still more emails. At least these ones didn’t have a 2-3 delay between them (so far).
But it still feels like they’re wasting my time with really silly questions beyond reason. Besides the bent pipe on the new motherboard I also noticed a USB video device of mine isn’t working in the nearest-left port. So they are asking me to reinstall drivers (it’s a basic USB video device, it does not need any special drivers installed and works in all the other ports), look in the USB Boot Storage devices section (why would it appear there at all as a video device?), and they’re asking me stuff I literally already told them in previous emails. After I said it “works normally on all five of my other ports, but is unusable in the sixth port,” they asked “May we verify if the USB C Expansion card is functional or not”?
Twelfth email:
For further checking on the issue about the port, can you try reinstalling the latest driver bundle and see for any changes? Here is the link: framework Laptop 16 BIOS and Driver Releases.
May we confirm that you are able to update the driver bundle?
Could you try resetting your BIOS to Defaults? To do this, you will need to press F2 after powering on the laptop, then press F9 to set to Defaults, and lastly hit F10 to Exit and Save Changes and let us know how it goes.
Would you mind sending one more photo > Under the boot section, bios and the attached device list should appear. We want to make sure if the expansion card is detected or not.
@PSierra117@Micah_Lindstrom So seeing y’all posting about this got me thinking. I hadn’t really noticed anything wrong with my unit from a hardware standpoint.
I’m currently testing the CPU using Cinebench R23 and monitoring sensors with HWiNFO64. The delta between Core4 (the hottest) and Core2 (the coolest) seems to be around 12-13°C (100°C compared to 87-88°C).
I’m not entirely sure how much this will affect performance or how far out of spec this behavior is, so I’m debating whether an RMA request would be in order or not. Any input from y’all would be most welcome.
Well you could try, its nothing like ripping off Framework, if you ask for an RMA. 12-13 is to much off in my Opinion. 2-5 would be in Line with what i experienced with any other CPU before.
If the Framework Support decides it is to much off, they will approve a Replacement.
12-15 C core delta sounds like it’s on the edge, maybe fine, maybe not. I’d be interested if it gets worse over time and what benchmark scores you get.
To me what really matters is whether you’re getting the performance you paid for, within some margin of error. For example I started out getting significantly lower Cinebench R23 score than NotebookCheck, and it kept getting worse. And also strangely, setting Windows “Power mode” to “Best performance” got worse scores than when set to Balanced. Also, “CPU Package Power” in HWInfo was reporting only ~28W of usage during benchmarks.
With replacement board it still doesn’t quite match NotebookCheck but it’s close enough for me without more data and with my room being at 75 or 80F or something like that. And I am beating the single-threaded scores, which is probably more important for my most common usage anyway. And now “CPU Package Power” starts out over 55W and is still pulling 46W at the end of the benchmark.
Seeing this post led me to check NotebookCheck’s numbers on the 7840HS to compare them with mine and, unfortunately, my unit is also performing well under spec.
I’m scoring ~14200 in R23 Multi when the NC minimum is 15515 and median is 16194. Single-core is also suffering, with ny unit scoring 1660 whereas the NC minimum is 1718 with a median of 1775. My CPU Package Power spikes to 47W but averages 40W.
Setting Windows 11 to Best Performance did not seem to affect scores substantially. I will be starting an RMA request with Framework tomorrow.
Careful, you can’t compare against NotebookCheck since they have the slightly faster 7940HS chip (which I got too).
Comparing against PSierra and Snipe who have your same chip, it appears your multicore score is a bit too low. But I don’t think I’ve seen anyone share R23 single-core results for a 7840HS chip so nothing to compare there. I would guess your single-core result matches expectations. Maybe try Cinebench 2024 as well, since LTT shared their scores for that with your same chip the 7840HS.
I highly suggest checking your CPU Package Power as well. Per , both chips should consume about the same amount of power. My first mainboard’s chip would consume only about 28W during benchmarks while plugged into the 180W charger, at full 100% battery, with Windows set to “Best performance”. My replacement starts out at about 49W and gradually drops to 46W as the computer heats up during the benchmark.
As far as I know, cooling is the only reason for the chip to not draw 45W or more (besides power modes of course; it draws about 16W during my benchmarks on battery with Windows set to “Best power efficiency”, which is expected).
Well funny enough, i did 2 CBR23 Runs today to check against Notebookcheck Framework16 and 7840HS Average.
Mine was also at ~14300 Multicore and around 1700~ Singlecore.
14300 is greatly underspec, Above 16000 is the Average 7840HS on Notebookcheck. There must be an underlying Problem with QS or maybe Batch 20.
The New Mainboard has the same Manufacturing Date, but the whole Assembly looks revised, there are new Foam Pads on the Heatsink.
And the best of all, i get about 1000 Points more in CB23 MC and the Temps are much more even overall!
Sounds like your R23 multi-core score now enters the range expected for the 7840HS, certainly good news. I actually just opened a support ticket this afternoon, we’ll see what the say.
Well certainly there is some Problems with either the Cooling System or the “Revolotionary Liquid Metal”
As there was still a Thermaldelta and it didn’t feel quite right, even with my new Mainboard.
I decided to remove the Heatsink and take a look. The Heatsink looks, ehm funny, it has hexagonal Bumbs. I Suspect them to be the Reason of the High Tempdelta on the FW16. As those Bumbs has to be filled by Thermal Interface Material. Possibly those are there to help with the surface Tension to keep the LM in Place.
Yes i know, the LM Pad is still not orderable. I Decided to remove all the PTM LM and install PTM 7950. Well, The Thermaldelta got reduced and i got even more CB R23 Points after the initial Burnin. And then today i removed the Heatpipe again and took a look how the PTM 7950 was spread.
Same but more Uniform.
I have decided to “Lap” the Hexagonal Surface to reduce the Bumps and reapply PTM 7950. Now if i ever want to get Liquid Metal under there again i have to get a new Heatsink, as it was coated Copper. And bare Copper without Coating hates Liquid Metal.BUT now i get nearly 15900 Points in CB R23 and the Thermals are more even across all Cores. With the Original Assembly it was 15400.
Edit:
Well i did a new Run right now and i got even more Points, So the PTM 7950 is still in its Burnin Cycle. The CPU Power goes up to 61w and reduces to 51W during an Single Run.
First off, props to you for having the nerve to remove the heatsink and give this a look. Second, I figured PTM7950 would make for a great TIM for something like the FW16, so I will definitely consider making use of it if/when I get a new Mainboard.
And speaking of the RMA, I’ll keep y’all posted on how the RMA process goes for me.
I received my first response from Framework to my original support query. Here’s what they sent:
Thanks for contacting Framework Support. We’re sorry to hear that you are having an issue with your Framework laptop.
We apologize for the delay, as we’re having a high ticket volume.
In order to determine the best course of action, may we ask you:
When did the issue start?
Did you make any changes to your laptop before the issue occurred? (hardware/software)
Have you tried updating the BIOS? If not, kindly try to update it and see if there are any changes.
Try to set the BIOS settings to default and see if there are any changes.
Access the BIOS by tapping F2 or F12 during the boot-up.
Once in the BIOS, please press F9 to load the default setup.
Please press F10 to save and exit.
Does the issue occur when the laptop is connected to the charger? Or battery? Or both?
We noticed that your order does not include SSD and RAM. For documentation purposes, can you share with us the model and specs of your SDD and RAM?
Can you visually inspect the fan(s) and look for any debris or obstructions that may be blocking the airflow? If possible, kindly try to clean the fan using compressed air.
Are there any hubs, docking stations, printers, or other devices plugged into your laptop? If yes, kindly share with us the exact model.
Can you try to remove all the expansion cards and see if there are any changes?
We are looking forward to your response. Thank you.
Regards,
Framework Support
Here’s my reply:
Hey there,
I can’t exactly pinpoint when the issue started, since I had simply been using the laptop without benchmarking it and had no indication that anything was necessarily wrong outside of what seemed to be overly aggressive fan curves and some odd player lag in Counter-Strike 2, though I attributed that to perhaps a quirk with the game itself or a network latency issue.
The laptop has been in the exact same hardware configuration since I received it, outside of swapping out a USB-C expansion card for an HDMI expansion card every once in a while.
The BIOS is currently on version 3.03, the latest stable revision released by y’all.
After setting the BIOS to defaults and returning to Windows, I ran Cinebench R23 again with only HWiNFO and Covenant Eyes running in the background (to match the parameters of my original test) and saw multi-core scores drop about 300 points and single-core dropped 5 points, as well as observing the same anomalous core-to-core thermal deltas.
The issue occurs when the laptop is connected to the Framework 180W USB-C charger. I didn’t test under battery in order to give the laptop its full power budget during benchmarking.
My SSD of choice is a TeamGroup MP44L 2TB (TM8FPK002T0C101) and my RAM kit of choice is G.Skill Ripjaws DDR5 2x32GB 5600MT/s CL40 (F5-5600S4040A32GX2-RS)
Upon removing the Graphics Module to visually inspect the fans, all I could see was a small amount of dust as expected from regular use. The fins on the mainboard heatsink were practically impeccable and had no obstructions.
The only device plugged into the laptop during the original round of testing (as well as gaming) is my Logitech G502 LIGHTSPEED’s wireless receiver.
I removed all the expansion cards and plugged in the charger to the left rear Expansion Card port and re-ran Cinebench R23 with the same parameters as the other two tests and once again observed lower scores than the original test and the same core-to-core thermal delta I mentioned in my first message.
Looking forward to y’all’s instructions on how to proceed from here!
It seems like they’re sending out a generalized first response to get common issues resolved and out of the way before going in-depth on a given support ticket. We’ll see how everything shakes out.
Yeah as i told, you must get through the first Question Lap, before they send you to the experts, but for me it was 5 Days from initial Contact, until i was notified i will get a replacement.
I Just did a Cinebench24 Run and you can see my old Score and the new Score with my new Mainboard and modified Cooling Solution. over 70Points more is massive in cb24
Even my Single Core Score was massivly affected before. 102 vs 80 Points. Thats Wild!
Wish you all the Best, i hope you get alot better Scores with the RMA’ed Board. My Modification, is far off the Chart for the most Users, but i was pretty comfortable not to screw it up, and even when it would have worsened, i would have wait to replace the Liquid Metal Pad (When available). My Current suspicion is, that the Manufacturer of the Pad, has a Quality Problem OR its not enough Liquid Metal, to fill the hexagonal Dips. Because even without lapping the Surface for more than a quarter of a Hair (didnt wipe out the hexagons) improved the Thermals even further from the Pure PTM 7950. I would never have bothered doing it, if the PTM7950 hadn’t improved the Performance from the Liquid Metal.
Hey Guys i want to Update you as my fellow Batch 20’ers
I did further Modification on my Replacementboard.
further Lapping worked and gave some extra Points (more than 200)
All CBR23 Runs i posted have been Single Runs and the CB24 Runs 10 min Loops.
I will perform another Step, i ordered, Knife Sharpening Stones with 400/1000/3000/8000 Grit
To get it as flat and shiny as an Mirror. But as “rough” as it looks, it gave me better Systemperformance by 2-4% just by this Step. Overall i improved the Performance about 6% on my Replacement Mainboard (CBR23 nearly 1000 Points extra), just by manually modifying the Mating Area and replacing the Liquid Metal with PTM7950 (which should be vice versa)
And i am even beating Micas 7940hs with my 7840hs right now.
So when the Sharpening Stones arrive i will rip it apart again and do some more “manufacturing”
Thanks for the info. I also had very bad performance and decided to remove the heatsink and apply standard thermal paste (with slight increase in performance). What do you mean by “lap” ?
