I just received my framework, but I’m already in trouble with our accounting team. I bought it for word, and I need an invoice complying German accounting rules.
Bit the support te tells me that this is not possible and I have to send the laptop back, get a refund.
This leaves a big WTF on my face. Can someone explain to me how you get to sell things and get them through customs without any kind of proper invoice?
Who can I talk to? I don’t want to send it back.
TBH, this was a test if we can use it for the whole company, but without invoice?
For company purchases, this makes things a bit difficult, especially the VAT aspect. I had mine ordered directly from Framework in December and shipped to Germany via freight forwarder. For accounting, I used the shipping notice which stated all items and prices, together with the credit card statement. VAT was charged directly from DHL Express so that wasn‘t a problem as their invoice can be used to get a VAT refund without any issues.
In your case, you can either use the shipping notice Framework sent by email (which should have all the prices listed) to hand to accounting, together with the same amount appearing on the corresponding credit card statement that should be enough to make tax authorities happy (not necessarily your accounting team though).
Regarding VAT though, with the way things seem to be right now, I see no chance that your company will be able to get a VAT refund for this order due to a lack of proper invoice and VAT ID of the seller. If your company can accept to forego the VAT refund, there shouldn‘t be a reason why you shouldn‘t be able to keep the machine. (As the strict accounting rules for invoices are mainly for VAT refund eligibility.)
Btw for customs it is not required to have a real commercial invoice, a pro forma invoice is enough as long as it lists all items and their respective prices.
That indeed sounds like the issue lies with your accounting team (like “my system requires me to enter an invoice number, and as long as I don’t have one, I can’t enter it in the system”). Can’t really blame them for being a bit picky though, that’s actually a resource and thus a requirement for someone who works in accounting.
Maybe if you can convince your bosses that this serves as some sort of pilot in order to evaluate whether Framwork’s product is suitable for your company, you can manage to throw some hierarchy support behind this. After all, there’s other cases where you haven’t got an invoice number either (“Eigenbeleg”) which are being routinely processed by accounting.
I hope you’ll manage to work this out and keep your machine!
And btw, I was also very surprised to find out that Framework wasn’t able to issue a proper invoice and I don’t quite understand why this is still not possible.
Hi Oliver,
thats not so easy. I have a similar problem as Mike and got the same answer from support, which left me baffled. I too orderd it as a test, if we can use it for the whole company
Some information must be included on an invoice in order for it to be accepted by the german tax office.
The problem in my case is, that the “invoice” I got, had several wrong information.
The Parts listed were not correct, 8 GB instead of 16 GB, the taxes are not specified, the total ammount is wrong and therefore is not coressponding to the creditcard statement and my company is not reffered to as the buyer even though it was explicitly said so when orderd the Laptop.
I’m really sad about that all, because i was so excited when I got the Framework Laptop.
Now I am afraid that I have to send it back…
I do understand and share your disappointment. Note that from a legal point of view (at least as far as Germany is concerned), businesses (in this case the seller, Framework) are not legally required to issue an invoice to consumers and Framework stated that they do not support selling to businesses yet (see links above).
Furthermore (again I only know this for sure for Germany), in order for a business (such as your employer) to be able to correctly record the expenses for the Framework laptop purchase as operating expenditure, the minimum requirement by law is that they
can prove the payment, e.g. via the bank/credit card statement, and
can credibly demonstrate that they have received the machine.
An invoice is (while, of course, commonly used) not absolutely necessary by law.
A proper invoice (with all the requirements such as address of seller and buyer, date of performance, invoice number etc.) is only necessary for getting a VAT refund (“Vorsteuerabzug”). This will most likely not be possible in your cases.
Our tax consultants had no complaints with the documents we provided, but of course we’re a small business without an own accounting team and thus are quite flexible.
Please do check out the links above, especially the one about enterprise sales.
And btw this does not mean that I endorse how Framework is handling this. To the contrary, I find it strange that something simple such as issuing an invoice still seems to be a problem after being in business for quite a few months now. I’m just sharing what I learned from my experience in buying this laptop from overseas and from a number of years of managing a small business, with a large portion of that time having managed accounting and taxes myself.
Edit: Long story short - a possible solution to your problem could be if your company would be willing to waive the VAT refund (“Vorsteuerabzug”) and use the “Eigenbeleg” option.
Hi Oliver,
thanks for your information. But what i don’t understand the most is, even as a private buyer, I’d want at least a correct invoice. At least the parts and the total ammount should be correct. How can it possibly be legally ok to issue an invoice with this kind of wrong information?
The framework support is acting verly poorly in my case, sent me 3 Mails last night containing copys of my order so that I can “analyze my invoice problems”. I have all these information and already listet all the problems (wrong parts, wrong total amount, wrong Name).
I already settled with the missing tax information. I guess I can probably get that through accountig, but the wrong parts and the wrong total ammount of the “invoice” is what will get me into trouble. And finally, why is there any possibility to add an Invoice Adress with a companyname, if you don’t officially sell to companys and if you are not going to use it on the invoice anways?
I don’t think that is going work with my accounting.
I’ll see to that on monday, but ich won’t touch the laptop until this happend. And I am expexting the worst, if I send it back, because of the wrong part list and wrong ammount, of the “invoice”.
I’ve come to terms, that the most likely Option is to send it back, even if thats the option I dislike the most.
I can call myself lucky. My company accepts the order as an invoice and accepted the fact, that they can’t use it for a VAT refund.
Would have been difficult anyway because of the wrong price on the “Invoice/Packing list”.
I think the dream of establishing the framework laptop as the new Standard Laptop in my company has now vanished into thin air.
Don’t think I can get my superiors to permit another order like this one.
Maybe I try. The problem is that this is now “on the radar”. So maybe someone will remember this process which will make it difficult to try it again even if the circumstances have changed. For now i enjoy the Framework Laptop and don’t think about the Problems anymore. Love the device so far, so it was worth the trouble.
Hej Folks! I also got the German Batch 8 Framework and need to support the questions here. I also bought it for business and feel rather deceived! I mean in the whole buying process I didn’t get any note that it wouldnt be possible to get a proper invoice. In fact collecting information about your business adress is even suggesting that the process will be absolutely fine for businesses. Really a NoGo and I do not understand why Framework isn’t able to provide a proper invoice even if you ask. Laptop cool, process suuuuuper disappointing!
@Oliver for me, this is not about getting vat back. It’s an order from the US, so there’s technically no VAT (kinda). It’s about getting a document with the invoice details
Invoice number
Fulfillment date
Line items
Billing and shipping address.
Framework letterhead
That’s all. I can make a word document like that myself but that’d be fraud…
@Michael_Siebert I’m afraid in this forum we can’t help you obtaining a correct invoice. All we can do is share detailed information about our individual experiences as well as possible workarounds and point to other information that is available at this time, with the potential benefit that others can become aware of what issues they may be facing before they buy.
It would probably be a good idea to contact support about this and mentioning this thread:
@FrameworkBee There seems to be quite some legitimate customer dissatisfaction here that the Framework team should probably be aware of. In Europe, it is quite common (while not legally mandatory) to provide consumers with a proper invoice. And - especially compared to some of the technical and logistical challenges you guys have been mastering in a quite impressive way - it’s really not rocket science either. (To be clear, I’m talkin B2C here, I’m well aware that B2B sales involves some additional challenges due to VAT issues.)
Way to go, that’s awesome to hear, congrats on persuading your company! Maybe this can encourage @Michael_Siebert to keep fighting
If you find the machine to be great and useful in your work context and want to order more for your company, you can always contact Framework about participating in their B2B pilots:
Would anyone of those who have actually received an (albeit wrong) invoice possible be willing to post it here as an example (with personal information redacted of course)?
Thats my invoice.
The part list is wrong, 8 GB instead of 16 GB and the price is wrong too. About 200 € higher than the right ammount. The number an type of expansion cards on the list are wrong too as i notice now…
