I have a cool cooling idea for the framework team

[pani_alex]

I like my devices running cooler and have ever mod them therefore. So i was thinking it will be nice that the compact devices have that option upgrade, so if i don’t really care about an ultra thing device, and am more into efficiency, i choose to ad some cooling mod to it.

What i imagine easy on the manufacturer side is, to make the cpu block or on the heatsink a flat surface with 4 holes near the corners, so someone makes a cooling mod that i can easily attach to it. or DIY one.

What is the point? if i run heavy games or demanding works on it, not having the fans screaming constantly, making it annoying, or avoiding thermo throttling and get full turbo instead of just a few seconds

Most of the laptops suffer from thermo throttling, and yes if i only open mails no problem, but if i make long compilations, avoiding thermo throttling will short times, also gaming will be benefit from that.

The steamdeck in Germany runs 2.3ghz(thermo throttled), and with a heatsink mod runs full 3.5ghz without overheating, in topical countries you can’t even run demanding games have i heard

I see a problem with a very easy solution, with a small cover that when open, exposes a metal surface made for heatsink mods

Edit:
I think it can also be retro fitted, selling a back case and heatsink seems ok for the enthusiast

[Platos]

Im also interested in better cooling. But what do you mean with 4 holes on the CPU heatsink? So and then, what do you want to attach on that? There is basically not a lot free space in a laptop, so what is your idea?

And why should a heatsink have a flat surface? The point of a heatsink is exactly the opposite.

Do you have a drawing of your idea ?

[pani_alex]

My bad, i mean, the same way a cpu cooler is attached over the cpu with 4 screws, and no, not to put it inside the device, the idea is that the mod is attached to the device adding thickness, so its on you to decide.

I don’t have drawings but look at how Linus attached the heatsink to the steamdeck, or search for " Framework Mainboard Meets Noctua CPU Cooler: An Epic Mod!" on youtube, or “Another SteamDeck cooling mod” on LTT forums and imagine how easy those mods would be if the actual heatsink already has attaching holes. Since a custom cooling mod will be made for it, it will be less bulky and can work even better than a DIY cooling system that was adapted to fit in

Imagine that the steamdeck has this opening to attach a cooling mod on the other side of the actual blowing hole, so you can attach something like the jsaux GP0200 that has a heatsink literally 4 times bigger than the stock one, a independent fan and instead trying to get more cooling by brute forcing air, adds more real cooling capacity

[Bernd_Steinzimmer]

There are 3 screws, marked as 1, 2, 3
Heatsink and Fan Replacement Guide - Framework Guides

[pani_alex]

Not replacing, it brings nothing to replace it, you can’t fit a bigger one inside either way, if there is no more space in the case, my idea behind it is to add more cooling, and by replacing the actual cooling, the outside cooling must to be even bigger. Watch the references i mentioned to understand what i mean

[BarriBurt]

Liking the OP’s enthusiasm here. Nothing seems impossible to a man with a Dremel tool and a soldering iron.

You might take the Coolermaster external case and cut it open, turning this into a funny looking desktop. Or just mount it against a wooden board with a few standoff screws and whatever cooling arrangement you can cook up.

Good luck with it! Send photos!

[pani_alex]

yes but it will be nice that the device has that upgrade option, and i don’t have to DIY that much, i mean, it’s cool to DIY but if the solution i made could not reach a decent level of efficiency because the way i attached it is not the more efficient, and if it already has the screw holes and an aluminum or copper surface ready for it, that will reach better cooling because the contact way better is, and the screw holes in the correct position is.

In the LTT video for example, the way Alex attached it is ideal (near the contact surface), but the heatsink has an iron top, and iron is a very bad heat transfer, if it were copper or aluminum will be perfect. The way i made it, is also so bad, 2 layers of thermal pads is like a sin. And on the framewor, the way he attached the cooler, uses way too much space, and from the dimension of the stock heatsink, i truly believe that even adding a 1x1x5cm heatsink with whatever cooler will make a huge difference, i can also think on some extreme crazy thin but full laptop area passive no noise solution

And again, i don’t think it will make cost to much money

[Bernd_Steinzimmer]

Just make your own copper or aluminium mounting plate which utilizes the existing 3 screws to attach it. Modding is about you doing the work and not asking the manufacturer to make your life easier. It won’t happen.

[pani_alex]

1 - i don’t have all the tools to make that king micrometer perfect parts, also not all the knowledge there for. What easy is, is making modding, adapting, and even easier to by one

2 - my proposition is to add cooling not to take out the actual and put a bulkier one hanging outside, the idea is that by adding a not to big one, i get another 50/100% more

i don’t know if it is hard to visualize what i am talking about, i can make some 3d models late, or is it just you don’t wanting the cover? like old laptops that have many covers on the back tu upgrade without opening it

Another idea, laptops already blow air on the back, so if some company makes a heatsink that goes on the bottom, for a laptop that has the cooling mod cover, there can be 2 L heatpipes that go from the cover to the back, and on the outtake have a 1x1x5cm fins so it will add cooling by just making is 5mm thicker and 1cm longer

[Platos]

@pani_alex

i don’t know if it is hard to visualize what i am talking about, i can make some 3d models

Yeah, do some 3D Models, because what you are talking about is not comprehensible.

I watched the video from Linus, but i don’t get, how you would do that without damage the bottom-case. You would have to cut out a big hole like on linus video. So yeah, better draw a 3D Model.

[pani_alex]

This suppose to be a laptop

Here is looking from below, left is with the cover and right is withoud, exposing the cpu heatsink with the flat top and the 4 screw holes to “add more”(not replace) cooling

Here is a small 10mm height cooling mod

and here one that uses the exhaust no needing fan

These are just on-the-fly ideas, everything needs to be tested to see what is the benefit, is there is some, but once you have the option it is easier

[Platos]

Ahh, i see. I just checked the “The Verge” video about 16" Laptop. It will not work, because the CPU points upwards (to the keyboard). The existing heatsink is therefore also mounted pointing upwards.

It’s impossible with that idea. So it will not work.

Look here: Framework 16: an exclusive look inside the modular gaming laptop - YouTube

And there is also not a lot room for more cooling. Maybe someone else has a freaking good idea. But i don’t see any idea, when you wan’t to bee still mobile (like a laptop).

And these laptop-coolers like you linked above (the one for the steamdeck) are super bad. On amazon there are sooo many comments about not deacreasing a single °C. And they are loud like a airplane.

Also these laptop-pads, where you put your laptop on are often completly useless. It is only usefull, if you have a lot of holes in the bottom-case of the laptop. Otherwise it will just blow air on the case, which is completly useless.

And i heard it will have liquid metal attached. So you can’t also not increase it by using liquid metal.

So if someone has an idea, im also interested. Because cooling is also the weakspot of such laptops.

[Platos]

Here is a better Picture of the cooler :https://static.frame.work/i9cek06kyewaol50nyuu41p7938t

you can see there the fins and the end of the heatpipes.

So what you cant do:

• There is no space on the upper side of the heatpipe. So you cant just “attach” a heatsink on the upper side, beacuse there is the case of thr laptop.

• Replace the heatsink. That is illusional. First of all there is not more space, so using another heatsink makes no sense. Second there is not more space for more or bigger heatpipes.

What you theoretically could do:

• Put flat heatpipes ON the end of the existing heatpipes (so on the upper side). Then guide them straight out of the backside of the laptop (you would have to cut/drill holes). Then you could mount there a much bigger heatsink and fan.

BUT: It’s hard to see on the “The Verge” video, bit as far as i can see it, there is maybe ~1mm space above the existing heatsink. So there is actually no space free. So this is sadly not possible i think.

• Second possibility: remove the existing fins (huge risk of damaging the heatpipes) and attach bigger one (same size but mor height). This is a) very difficult and b) you would not be able to use it as a normal laptop anymore, because you would have to cut holes in the laptop and the fins would come out of thr laptop.

• third possibility: You could take off the fins and mount flat heatpipes at the bottomside of the existing heatpipes (and then reattache the fins or bigger fins at the bottomside). The new heatpipes comes out (somewhere) on the backside of the laptop an there you could mount a second heatsink + fan. This would also lead in no portability anymore. Also very difficult to do.

If there would be enough space to mount on flat heatpipes with graphit thermal pad and (somehow) with magnets, it could be still transportable somehow. But as i said i see no space and copper is not magnetic.

• fourth: Cutting out the areas, where the fins are (from the bottom of the laptop). Then attache some flat heatpipes on the bottom-side of the finns (if there is an even surface) and guide them out of thr laptop on the backside. Mount fins and fan there. But im not sure if this would help in any way, because you mount thr heatpipes only on the fins, which is very inefficient.

General Problem: The hinge of the screen sits right behind the fins. So “guiding” out some heatpipes would mean, you have to bypass these hinge, because they are in the way.

So im out of ideas atm. If someone has an idea, i would like to hear.

The only other thing which could really be possible (but helps maybe only a bit):

• Instead of adding a bigger cooler, connect the heatpipes with the metal case of the laptop to gain more surface. So connect it with the metal-cover above the heatpipes with thermal pads (you can do that with the ssd maybe too). So use the case as a single big fin. But that could lead in heating up other components like the keyboard. I mean the metal cover, which covers all components. You could connect the whole surface of the heatpipes and the area, where the heatpipes comes out of the heatsink. That’s quite a lot of area and it is easly done, because you have only to add some thermal pads.

But as i said: This would make this metal cover heat up a lot and im not sure if that could damage the keyboard. And it would make it a bit more difficult to open up the laptop. So you would have to take not so much “sticky” thermal pads.

I dont knoe how much mm there is between the pipes and the top-cover. If it is more than only ~ half a millimeter, maybe you could use copper, which you glue on the heatpipes and then using thinner thermalpads like these graphit-ones from thermal crizzly i believe. But im not sure if the pressure would be high enough or if it would just bend the top-cover up.

So connect the heatpipe with the metal-case where it is possible and where it does not heat up other electronics.

[Platos]

Edit: I have another idea (i write a third post because the other is long enough): But i have no idea, how good it is:

Ok, look, there are these little bars left and right from the keyboard and left and right from the touchpad (they are moveable too).

You could take them off temporary (if laptop is in desktop-usage). As i said above: Connect the heatpipes with thermalpads with the metal-cover which sits on top of the hardware. But try to (somehow) connect the heatpipes with the metal-cover, which is directly on the spots, where these bars are.

Then you could add some magnets somewhere below the metal-cover (just somewhere, where there is free space to glue magnets on the metal cover). So now, when the laptop is build together, you could take these bars off and put a heatsink on the place, where the bars were.

My Idea is now: Buy any heatsink, which fits good from the dimensions. Drill some hole in the heatsink and glue some magnets in it (at the same spots, where the other magnets sits, which are mounted below the metal-cover).

Now buy some of these reusable graphit-thermal pads from thermalgrizzly. Then put it on the free space, were the bars were and put the heatsinks on top of it and hope, that the magnets make enough “mounting pressure”, to connect the heatsink with the metal-cover. And hope, that this little metal-sheet does not bend, otherwise this graphit-thermalpad maybe has no good contact.

If wanted: At some fans. If you have to go just take off the heatsink (because there are only magnets) and the graphit-pad (its reusable).

So for now: This is my beast idea. But it is an idea. Maybe this is a total fail. But in my opinion this is the best “give a try” which lets the laptop be a laptop and untouched (no drilling holes in laptop and only parts, which you can take of in a second).

Edit2: I heard of a thermalpad, which have mindblowing heat conductive capabilities, BUT only in the x and y axis (so it does only spread heat. A normal thermal pad should guide the heat on the z-axis.). In this case this could be very helpfull to spread the heat over the whole area, where these bars sits. Because the hestpipes are only ~ 1cm wide or so.

So maybe you could do this: Attach thermal pad on top of the heatpipes. But they now dont have to touch the metal-cover. Put some of these special-thermal pads between. But they are very thin, so you would have to glue them with thermal-glue on the metal-cover. Then it sits between the thermal pad and the metal-cover. Maybe it spreads the heat a bit, maybe the thermal-glue destroys the effect.

So hope it spreads the heat better.

I mean this “special” pads (he is applying wrong because he thinks it has high z-axis heat transfer. Read also the comment from jpeg6 in this video):

This Sounds Too Good to be True - God-Tier Thermal Pad

Edit 3: For sure, you have these bars left and right from the keyboard only, if you are not using the 10-key from the keyboad. Otherwise there is no bar.

Edit 4: Instead of using thermal pads, you could use thermal putty. Watch this for this topic: https://youtu.be/raHKGnJ4LYM?t=547

[pani_alex]

The contact surface for expanding the cooling doesn’t need to be over the cpu, that will be i think the best option, but the heat pipe is very good at conducting heat, so the contact surface could be at any point. (i put it on opposite side of the cpu for my steamdeck, it works very well, but i can imagine heat pipe has a limited capacity of transferring heat, but at the same time, a bigger dissipation surface will do more than the small one that most of the laptops have)

The reason why i am saying this must be done by the manufacturer is that it must be in the design, so i don’t need to do some ugly cutting or destroy something while trying. The experience must be, buying or DIYing something, take out a cover, align the holes and screwing it, and end. Well attached and secure.
So at some point of the heat pipe, a 3x3, 2x3, 1x3… expansion surface is an easy solution, if not possible, make the heat pipe longer, so it gets to somewhere where its space to attach the expansion cooling, or more extreme, having a dedicated heat pipe for it. There could be also a portion of the fins that are detachable, unscrew it and attach more cooling, sort of what you suggested but with the device ready for this option, no need to make your device ugly or destroy it in the process

If the case is not from a good heat conductive material, there is no case to making it uncomfortable but is also an idea, i made that with my macbook, but in this case, the case is aluminum and i help it by putting the macbook over a huge heatsink i have, otherwise i didn’t soo any benefit. Also, there is a steamdeck case that use the same idea, i find it very inefficient, but that is why it must be done by the manufacturer, again, so that it won’t be nearly useless. If the steamdeck heatsink already has the surface i am suggesting, the case could have a detachable cover to quick attach more cooling directly and more efficiently. The steamdeck air forcer is another not so good idea because it only tries to force more air throw the same surface, there is not to much to de there, and is an old idea that came from the laptop era, that wasn’t already there a very good idea to.

The idea of quick detachable cooling sounds nice, but i can’t think on an efficient way of having good contact, maintaining it clean and avoiding damaging the pads or making a mess with the paste. These dry thermal pads are too fragile, a normal thermal pad seems less trouble, but you will need some kind of cover to avoid damaging it or dirt while is not on, and thermal paste is the same but more messy.
I like something more permanent, that stays as a part of the device and allows you to have the benefit all the time maintaining sort of the compact shape

I am not fully convinced about the quick detachable solutions, i will want the cooling performance to stay with me, not at home, and something that adds 1 or 2cm to the device is acceptable for me

[Platos]

@pani_alex

The contact surface for expanding the cooling doesn’t need to be over the cpu, that will be i think the best option, but the heat pipe is very good at conducting heat, so the contact surface could be at any point.

Did you even read my posts ?

I mean i did clearly analyse, where, where not and how you could route the heatpipes and so on. There is pretty sure no space to route heatpipes. And you are just saying the same like you would never read, what people are writing here.

Did you even watch the videos i linked?

For me it seems you just have this idea in your mind, but you have absolutley no clue how to do it.

As i said, the CPU is pointing upwards. So you can’t go out on the bottomside of the laptop.

So make a real design of a real idea instead of having basic ideas.

@pani_alex

The experience must be, buying or DIYing something, take out a cover, align the holes and screwing it, and end. Well attached and secure.

As i said, make a design. Others will not design it for you and for sure framework does it not either. Framework will not completly redesign their cooling-design because of your wishes and wants. You have to design it.

@pani_alex

expansion surface is an easy solution, if not possible, make the heat pipe longer, so it gets to somewhere where its space to attach the expansion cooling, or more extreme, having a dedicated heat pipe for it.

Yeah, if easy, then design it Then you can make the heatpipes going “somewhere” xD

Stop wishing and thinking. Do it. But please watch the “the verge” video and search for real footage to make sure, it actually will work.

@pani_alex

I am not fully convinced about the quick detachable solutions, i will want the cooling performance to stay with me, not at home, and something that adds 1 or 2cm to the device is acceptable for me

So then design, what you want/need. We are exited to see, what you will design.

For sure we don’t do it for you. And for sure framework will certainly not do for you what you are too lazy to do or unable to do.

We gave you some points. Now do sth with it.

We are exited to see, what you are designing (at least i am exited to see, what real designs you will do, because im also interested in cooling-mods).

[Richard_Lees]

Platos, if I understand both of your passionate posts here I think you’re missing that pani alex is suggesting routing everything =outside= the case. He just is looking for a way to attach around the cpu and an access panel on the back cover to pass thru.

I do agree that you’re not likely to get FW to assist with something that is =very= niche – you’ll need to find attachment methods on your own and then get out the dremel tool for the opening.

[Platos]

Im even not sure anymore, which model he actually meant. I thought he means the 16" laptop, but i missunderstood that probably (if he means the 13" it shows even more, that he was never reading my posts, because i was clearly reffering to the 16" model in all videos i have linked and all my ideas were clearly reffering to it too).

But as i said, i see no way to bring the heat from the cpu outside of the case to this attachment. And as i also said the CPU is pointing upwards (on both, 13" and 16" Laptop).

Anyway: I think he has just very rudimentary “ideas” and is hoping, others will tell him, how to do. But i am not really sure, if he has any interest in really doing sth for it. Because as it seems, he does not even read the posts of us exactly. Because he just repeats his basic-idea over and over again. He does not bring some specifics idea, where to route the heat out, nor does he have informed himself about the laptop, because he had not even an idea, that the cpu is not pointing downwards.

That’s not not make me feel wanting to help him, because for me it seems he just throws in his basic-concept and then let others do it for him.

And if he meant the 13" model: I would say this model is even more complicated to mod in that topic. There is even less space, so at least it seems so on pictures/videos (i dont have one atm).

So i meam if he would really!!! bring some REAL ideas, which would actually be compatible to his device and not only be a mind-map like idea, then i would maybe have interests in helping or adding my ideas.

But as long he is just throwing in his basic-ideas which has no actual compatibility to the device, im sure most other users have no interest in helping him.

@Richard_Lees

Platos, if I understand both of your passionate posts here I think you’re missing that pani alex is suggesting routing everything =outside= the case. He just is looking for a way to attach around the cpu and an access panel on the back cover to pass thru.

I do agree that you’re not likely to get FW to assist with something that is =very= niche – you’ll need to find attachment methods on your own and then get out the dremel tool for the opening.

He want’s to find a way to bring out the heat out of the case to attach “it” (a heatpipe or so) to a cooler. So at least that was, what he showed us in his pictures.

And i tried to analyse where you could route the heat through, but i saw no (efficient) way to do (except the solutions i said).

But he has clearly showed, he has no interest in designing ANYTHING himself. He want, that others do it for him. He has only his basic idea and does not even inform himself and looking, if his ideas are compatible with the device.

So he shall design something. I mean a real design which is compatible to the device. And then he can ask for help or tips. But not like that way he is doing. Just trying to let others do it for him.

[pani_alex]

Platos, i think we are not understanding each other. The point of my post was to give and idea to the framework team, not to build a product for me, nor me to design a working product, just to sheare an idea for the team to think about it.

I want to point out that i am not an engineer and don’t went to the uni, so i dont know so many terminologies, but i like to diy and have done work in plumbing, electricity, ultra basic electronic, engine mechanic, wood and work in programing, just basic in most of them, but once you know how things work, its easyer to get ideas about how things look like.
Having said that, i said earlier that there is no need for the “contract surface for the cooling expansion” to be at the beginning of the heat pipe or over the cpu, so it doesn’t mether where is the cpu located, and the contact could be anywhere where enough space for a contact surface is. So yes i watched the video, and saw that the cpu is under the keyboard, but having a heat pipe carrying the heat to the edge, where is possible to put a contact surface , like others and i have done with my steam deck

In resume, what i am asking is for the manufacturers of the devices is to attach somewhere on the heat pipe a surface, so that it will be easyer to add more cooling and what is even more important, it will be more efficient, because the surface will be uniform and welded to the heat pipe, not somehow attached, hoping that the thermal paste or pad will do a good job,… and adding a cover to access it. Having that as an option, the companies like jsaux will be able to make cooling devices that are not a joke and have real and efficient results

Also, i can not design something that demands changes in a device, that must to be done by the engineers that are working in the device, i give the idea, and they decide if and how to make it, but if it will not be something decent and instead something like jsuax, i will say, don’t even bother.

[pani_alex]

Platos, i am giving an “idea”, for “devices” i am not designing and demanding changes on them, i don’t own then and i don’t work for them, also what i am wanting from framework is to offer the contact surface, not the external cooling device, what i show is just to have an idea of what could be possible, the external cooling devices will be done by 3er party companies dedicated on that or for people that like to diy

@Platos

He want’s to find a way to bring out the heat out of the case to attach “it” (a heatpipe or so) to a cooler. So at least that was, what he showed us in his pictures.

And i tried to analyse where you could route the heat through, but i saw no (efficient) way to do (except the solutions i said).

But he has clearly showed, he has no interest in designing ANYTHING himself. He want, that others do it for him. He has only his basic idea and does not even inform himself and looking, if his ideas are compatible with the device.

So he shall design something. I mean a real design which is compatible to the device. And then he can ask for help or tips. But not like that way he is doing. Just trying to let others do it for him.

read the title, ïdea". you are making me angry, puting words in my mouth and making me seeing like a lazy person, “i just wanted to give an idea” That doesn’t mean that i have to design a working prototype for devices that i don’t even have influence to change them