My laptop is only 2 months old, I foresee the underside rather quickly being covered in an ornament of scratches which will look fine, at least to myself.
Talking about stickers. Maybe Dbrand has some plain stickers for the underside, then this could be a solution if the scratches are too visible for your liking.
Oh yeah, I remember a thick almost enamel-like coating on the underside of my ThinkPad X230. That one was fully a tank of a coating. With magnesium underneath which you would never find out
My impression of build quality is the same as everyone elseās I think. Itās adequate for a first-generation product for the most part, but they need to tighten up tolerances somehow. The aluminum spacers have (had, anyways, I donāt know) completely inadequate QC.
Other laptops Iāll pick up by the front corner one-handed. I donāt do that with the Framework 16 for fear of bending either the touchpad assembly or the midplate. I have paper shims between the upper left of the keyboard and the midplate, to avoid rattling when I type.
I still like this machine a lot. Itās just more midrange than youād hope itād be for the price. But Iāll take it if it means the business is sustainable. Iām very much looking forward to iterative design and manufacturing improvements over time. I hope they can deliver on that.
I donāt think they need to get to Appleās level, but they do need to get closer. Speaking of, the other night, I took apart my 5-year-old MacBook Pro to replace the thermal paste and clean out the dust. That was an absolute nightmare, by design: Appleās fault. Itād been running hot, thermal throttling, with messed up performance, fans going too hard, furry on the insideā¦ Apple actually designed the damn thing to self-combust during its working lifespan. There were 16 ribbon cables I had to route around the motherboard to get it in and out, and they were not cooperative. A ton of T3, T5, T8, and pentalobe screws, tiny brackets for no reason, full disassembly required to remove the cooler (brackets for which were partially hidden under a sticker)ā¦ Long live Framework, is what Iām saying.
That sums it up. I agree with your comment down to a T.
They do not need to get to Appleās levels, but they need to at least approach the level of structural quality you would get with an Ideapad 5 Pro 16, almost same specs of the iGPU version of this laptop but about half the price. Targeting the same build quality of an āupper mid rangeā laptop seems to be a reasonable goal - assuming that the competing āpremiumā glued-down slabs of metal and glass are unreachable because that level of solidity is a function of them being so unibody and unrepairable.
I mean - last week I was doing some window shopping at Media World and I stopped by at the laptops section. Out of curiosity I tried the various keyboards and none of them rattled or felt as inconsistent as the Framework 16 one. Even the ā¬450 dubious-quality Chromebook overall felt more solid. The 16 doesnāt need to reach MacBook-qaulity levels - having it reach the same feel as even an inexpensive non-modular laptop looks like a reasonable milestone for generation 2 or 3, though.
It needs to be done though: itās nice that itās modular and all, but this is a price issue. If you were comparing two laptops of the same price, then one being more modular and built less rigidly would feel like a much fairer comparison. Gen 1 gets a pass for being Gen 1 and Gen 1 products are often launched to get the idea out there and get a nice and concrete sentiment analysis from the early adopters, but this design needs serious build quality improvements for future generations to stay relevant after the hype IMHO.
I have not had any issues, except for the keyboard not working when it arrived but I suspect that was because the local FedEx is really rough on packages, and I have none of the issues mentioned here (even my spacers are perfectly aligned). I expect this laptop to last a long time and I donāt see myself changing it much in the next 5 years, probably just the GPU
You have paid more than 2000 dollars for your equipment.
You must inform the framework team since the error is theirs.
Letās remember that there are many teams that do not have this problem, and it is not an innovation-related issue, but something that the framework team had to foresee so that it did not happen.
If they donāt give you a solution, after paying so much money, then they donāt care at all about the users or anything related to this laptop.
I would contact them.
Batch 4 here. Using the laptop heavily since 5 months.
I would rate the build quality as really good, surprisingly good for a first gen product.
Only āissueā I have is what others here mentioned, on some tiny spots with heavy mechanical stress a bit of the silver cover layer is worn off. This is in some part certainly due to my heavy usage of the machine, and I donāt care, as it is a tiny non-issue
compared the wear I had seen on other laptops I have been using so far.
So far I have always used top-notch ThinkPads for two decades, all of them at or above the
2000 $ mark (T61p, T450s, T490, P1 Gen5 to name a few). All of them had some issues, a few also rather serious issues. I still have a ThinkPad, the P1 Gen5 (2800$), which I keep as a reserve machine, in case there is a problem so I can immediately switch the laptop and
keep working with my customers (thanks to virtualization, I can switch the laptop completely in 2 hours). Recently, I worked again for 2 weeks with the P1, and I must say, during that time I noticed clearly that the FW 16 is by far the better machine. I really missed the FW 16 then. I decided to sell the P1, and buy a second FW 16 as a replacement machine, which I will do now.
I must say the FW 16 is actually the best laptop I ever had so far.
I have a FW16, batch 16.
Design wise, I think they got a lot of things right. On that note, if they had not, I would not have purchased the FW16.
I had a few issues with touchpad edges being a bit curved/bent, but they replaced them, so OK there.
I think the only thing remaining is the USB compatibility problems. I am hoping they can fix them with a firmware upgrade.
If FW had open sourced the usb chip firmware and surrounding schematics, I would probably have fixed the problem myself by now.
Summary: I have let FW support know that I think they would sell far more units if the usb issues are fixed.
Great question, thanks for asking.
So, my work is building machines that build very small parts, so tight tolerances are my day job. I also spent a few years in knife forums where scrutinizing the most insignificant details of specialty consumer goods was pretty much all there was to do, and there I developed a bit of self-awareness when criticizing things I am enthusiastic about. Lastly, I am a big supporter of the philosophy and the mission behind Framework products.
All these things combine to give you my opinion that the build quality of my Framework Laptop 16 that Iāve had since early March (batch 3) isā¦
ā¦
ā¦
ā¦
pretty darn good.
I give that esteemed rating not grading on a curve because I want the company to succeed and this was the first release of this product. They did not advertise this as a rough draft of a product, surely they donāt want it seen that way, and I feel itās somewhat insulting to them to say āhey, itās great for a first try!ā No, I am not coddling Framework when I say this is a well-built machine. It feels solid, the various parts and modules fit great (apart from the touchpad and spacers, but Iāll get to that), it feels good to use, and it looks really good. There are some very impressive levels of polish on this product, and it really just oozes engineering effort.
But I am not without complaints, namely the touchpad/spacers and the flexible screen (which may or may not be a problem, Iām not actually sure yet but it feels weird). These are not build quality issues. These are design issues. I think itās an impossible task to get the thin aluminum of the touchpad and spacers to line up as perfectly as they need to to not look shoddy or occasionally pluck hairs from my arm. Do something else there. I donāt understand why they had to make the display so thin. Add more material and stiffen it up. Itāll be fine. Itāll still look great, and it wonāt make me nervous when I put my phone on top of it.
Still though, Iām nitpicking. These things donāt actually affect the way I use or feel about this laptop. I only enjoy using it. Though if they do want to impress me even more, itās on the design engineers, not the production process. A nitpick in itself, really.
A lot of the USB issues seem to be on the AMD chipset rather than on Framework themselves. It would be interesting to see future Intel options, they would very likely have better USB behaviour
Great points all around. Thanks for your comment! Itās great to see a perspective from someone with actual experience in the job
I have reached the same conclusion. The build quality is pretty good for what it is, the main constraint seems to be the thickness they target. Pretty much all of my build quality concerns could easily be solved by making the machine thicker and making various sheets of metal like the lid and the mid plate thicker, but then the machine itself would be thicker.
Sure, the keyboard doesnāt feel as consistent as something you would find on a regular laptop. But I have watched a fair share of āother laptopsā disassemblies for fun, and the main theme that recurs in laptops with keyboards that feel perfectly solid in each and every point is the keyboard behind firmly held down, flush, with a solid oiece of metal, and kept still by rivets. In a way that it is fundamentally one in the same with the palm rest, which is something we donāt want. The Framework 16 takes this many steps further, completely decoupling it from the palm rest in a way that itās not even held up by half a million screws - which is what appears to be the next best thing if youāre not going to cheat your way out of it with rivets, itās basically an external USB keyboard thatās latched in place.
I still think a thicker mid plate would have been better in this situation, but the typing unevenness feels a lot more forgivable once you consider how laptops that donāt have this do it.
The One exception to the rule seems to be ThinkPad. Those keyboard are replaceable and they donāt even use too many screws, yet they feel perfectly solid. If Iām nitpicking, I would give the sweet spot in this implementation to whatever 14" T-series ThinkPads do. But this is still pretty good for there being no screws, and for the keyboard to be swappable while the device is still running. Past thatā¦ you need to decide if you want modularity or if you want a unibody slab of glass and metal. All things considered, I would still pick modularity. But the launch of the Dell XPS 13 and several Surface laptops back in the day, pioneering an entire legion of unibody but less repairable Windows laptops, indeed shows that there are also several people who are going to prefer the perceived solidity of unibody designs pretty much no matter what. Past that point you just need to decide what technical compromise you want to take.
@Luca2
I donāt think the USB issues are necessarily AMD chipset specific.
I think most of the problem is with the firmware for the Genesys Logic USB chips.
For example, in Linux as root
ālsusb -vā causes the Genesys Logic USB chip to timeout and reset itself.
I have a batch 1 (shipped late, so possibly batch 2 HW) FW16.
I took to percussive maintenance on the spacers, and used some electrical tape between the spacers/touchpad module and the midplane to reduce some rattling.
The Keyboard Deflection Kit definitely helped to make the keyboard feel better.
The audio is a bit weak, the fan noise can get annoying where it suddenly ramps up like crazy when the system isnāt doing anything or even seeming like anything running hot.
It has some flex, but not really concerning. I have a bigger issue with how deep the notebook is, itās hard to find a backpack that is both comfortable and the FW16 fits in.
Other than that, the device has been rock solid. Iāve had ~3 crashes in the last 9 months, which is probably just fine considering I use the system quite hard. It certainly has been crashing less than my previous two notebooks (HP/MSI). The firmware updates have been decent, giving me some fixes, but also regressions (Latest firmware struggles to charge using underpowered charging bricks).
Overall, Itās about what I expected and hoped for 
Worst part is the front 2 USB ports being so weak ITO power delivery that if I use an external hard drive, I have to move my USB-A plug back so it has consistently enough power to run it. Never had this with any USB3 notebook port before.
Yes, technically the device peaks past the USB3 specās 4.5W minimum suppply, but typically sits well below it.
I am 90% happy with my Framework 16 machine. I got my Framework 16 machine in early September so it was either batch 21 or 22ā¦ didnāt remember. However, zero issues with fan and the machine is operating very well. I have the Ryzenā¢ 9 7940HS with 64GB ram and 4TB 990 Pro SSD. No issues with thermals (that I am aware of). I am not thrilled about the uneven spacers on either side of the touchpad but I have gotten over it. No issues with touchpad itself. Keyboard can take a little bit getting used to but again it doesnāt bother me as i use a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse. Only issue I had was a black screen when I switched screens with my usb-c switch but with 24.10.1 AMD drivers that issue got resolved. The screen/lid seems a touch flimsy but I am not shedding tears about it. Overall I knew the risks that come with early adoption and thus far my machine has exceeded my expectations and it is a fast and responsive machine. I do look forward to future BIOS and feature updatesā¦these are my personal opinions.
Yup, sounds like we pretty much agree that we disagree more with the design than the actual execution of it, i.e. build quality. At least thatās how Iām defining build quality, but I guess you could define it as equivalent to design. Either way, I think most complaints could have been prevented with simply more metal. It might not even have to be that much if strategically placed. I think thereās just so much consumer pressure to make laptops thin and light that it may have pushed the 16ās design just a little too far.
And I emphasize āmay haveā, because I donāt know if mine is just somehow slightly stiffer than most, but I still donāt know what people are talking about with the keyboard. Every time it comes up and Iām on my 16, I compulsively give it a stress test and push it unreasonably hard, and I just donāt see it. Maybe Iām not just sensitive enough to flex, or maybe the design is just right there on the edge of the perfect balance, and I just happened to get a good, stiff one.
And speaking of flex, Iām actually writing this on my 2015 MacBook Air 13" and you know what? As much as Apple gets universal credit for build quality, this thing does not feel especially rigid when you grab it by the corner. Iād say it feels relatively worse when open, given that the screen is a much larger percentage of the total mass than the FW16ās screen. Maybe it just feels a little more disconcerting on the FW because itās larger and heavier, but I really do think if we actually objectively compared the structural integrity to other standards of quality, I bet we find itās actually a pretty darn solid machine!
I think youāre right about the semantics. āBuild qualityā Iāve never understood to be distinct from design. I agree with your point, but in casual speech Iāve always read ābuild qualityā as something like ālook and feel plus subjective sense of durabilityā. If I hadnāt read the forums and had gotten luckier with one of my spacers and the keyboard (or midplate?) Iād be saying how āgoodā the ābuild qualityā is.
Disagree about adding material though. The displayās great, as far as Iām concerned. I donāt have any problem with flex there. I never open the laptop up and start twisting it by its corners. Weight, size, distribution of mass ā those matter to me, and Iād love if they could shave down some dimensions and weight a little bit, without sacrificing anything else. Iām in the āitās slightly too bigā camp, I think because Iāve got the discrete graphics, makes it hard to fit in a backpack and shifts the balance of weight away from the center. I canāt complain because I would have made the same choice if I was Frameworkā¦ itās glorious, on balance. I just wish a magically better choice was available.
I think thereās more than one keyboard thing going onā¦ I was in Batch 8 and didnāt have any āflexā problems either, just this keyboard-midplate rattle in the corner. I mean, I can push down on the keyboard and see it depress a little bit, but that doesnāt bug me. I canāt imagine why anybody would care about that. Itās not a shelf, feels solid to type on. ĀÆ\_(ć)_/ĀÆ
Oh OK, I read it more like production quality, like defect rate, tolerances, variability, etc. Because mine looks great, it does not look quickly slapped together in a sweat shop with some glue. I have no doubts that they have a good production process. But yeah, I think maybe build quality is more of a sum of the production process and the engineering design, the feel of the final product like you say. Either way, Iām overall very pleased.
Regarding the screen, Iām not participating in any of the threads about the screen flexing enough to press buttons and wake the computer or is just overall concerning how much it flexes when you open it by the corner, but I do see those concerns. I would feel better about it if it were stiffer, even if it meant it had to be thicker (Iām a fan of the Thinkpad T-series), but I donāt see it as a flaw necessarily. Some things just need a little more care. I know not to put my phone on face down on concrete, and I know not to rest a coffee on the lid of my Framework. Iām cool with that, though if I could, it would be better!
The palmrest cover isnāt great-feeling, the edges are rather annoying. Doesnāt fit great. Might sand it down a bit.
The expansion bay shell is rather unsatisfying, rather finicky. It does fit, but I have heard the GPU module is significantly better.
I havenāt observed much keyboard flex, itās a lightweight keyboard, I donāt tend to type with a lot of force.
Compared to my previous Thinkpad T14S (which I know is a S-tier), this is rather mushy and not-great feeling. But is workable.
My major gripe is the chassis stiffness. From the outside it looks like a kill-a-man hunk of gigantic solid aluminum, but once you get in and actually use it, it flexes quite a bit.
Itās not an unreasonable amount of flex, but for something costing this much I expect a bit better.
The screen (stiffness) is ā¦ fine. I wouldnāt mind more (at the cost of weight), but I wonāt complain, either.
At least itās aluminum.
But as a Thinkpad replacement (letās face it, itās practically asking for a match-up), itās not there. Definitely not, compared to the āindestructiblesā like the T430.
Yes! Thatās what Iām saying. Unit to unit variation and likelihood to end up with a āgoodā unit.
For example, I learned from this thread that I am one of the very few people who report rattling and other weird noises on the keyboard. Decided to investigate how it fitsā¦
ā¦There you go. Iām not particularly surprised about key-to-key error and āhollowā sounding keys with a fit like that. The keyboard is bent in basically all directions, with the highest point of the bend on where the above-NVMe pad is. Iāve seen someone in this thread have to use a small paper shim because it doesnāt sit on the mid plate on a spot on the top left but Iām not sure there is saving this. It also looks to rise above the left spacer in the center, and from there, gradually bend back to the top and bottom edges. Sheesh.
I am pretty sure this is not what the intended device looked like. My first laptop unit that had to be replaced had a much better fit. The second never had good keyboard to mid plate fit. This is already a newer mid plate and keyboard - it worked okayish at the beginning (except the new keyboard having very inconsistent backlight, another nitpick) but it looks like we are back at being completely bent now. I honestly donāt know why. My guess is that it must be the bottom cover - it might be not perfectly straight itself in some point, and if thatās that, I can replace the mid plate and keyboard as many times as I want, but they will never fit right. The picture doesnāt show it but itās also bent down in the same spot as where the touchpad module bends down in the bottom, pushing down the keyboard.
This shouldnāt happen. You shouldnāt have units that more or less approximate the āideal unitā, they should all be way closer.
Especially at this price point! It would be more justifiable if the price for the specs was more in line with the competition. At that point, being in the same price class, you would have the option to trade some build quality off for repairability. At double the price, it makes sense to be unsatisfied about the fact that you canāt have your cake and eat it too, IMHO.
Great designs take yield & tolerances of their tooling into considerations. Designs include the ability to execute to acceptable levels, to be profitable (one would hope). The build quality is one aspect of the various outcomes of the design.
So yes, I agree, these are design issues. (Otherwise, every Jon Doe can have a world class design laptopā¦on paper).
