The reddit comment pretty much sums it up, they’re not going to publish the roadmap because it includes plans for future things which are susceptible to a lot of uncertainty. Things will be made public when Framework considers it safe to announce and not subject to uncertainty.
Rather than a “copilot” key, they should just make it a generic “AI” key for all of us who will never trust M$ built AI.
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Or you know, just leave the freaking right super key to be mapped to whatever the hell you want.
At least the weird mes specific keys are usually just sending super complicated key combos and don’t do anything weirder to the keyboard. As far as it looks copilot is left ctrl+windows+f23 so you can just remap that to whatever ai thing you want instead of copilot.
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Hey everyone. It seems like most of the people on here are framework enthusiasts, and I like the idea of framework. I have been planning on getting a framework 16 when my current laptop finally stops working (it’s already giving me some weird trouble). So I decided to look at the currently available framework 16s and:
I would not buy a framework laptop right now because the CPU is wildly out of date. I’m also not thrilled about the GPU module also being two years old, but (hopefully) they could release a new GPU module soon and I can deal without one for now. But a two year old CPU is not acceptable for a new computer. Framework, you NEED to update your internals for your framework 16 or it will die, and I don’t want it to die. I want a laptop I can easily fix and upgrade when it’s touch pad stops working.
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Hey @Joshua_Cook_Otti, welcome to the forum!!
I’m really curious, could you qualify the word “wildly” a bit more? What newer CPUs do you have in mind? And could you cite the performance difference and/or use case that makes the older CPU such a bad choice for you?
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Something in the AMD AI 300 or 9000 series, I’d assume.
Framework doesn’t seem to want to offer new processor mainboards unless there’s an appreciable change. Hence why it seems like they skipped the 8840 and such refreshes.
However, the 13 now offers AMD AI 300 series. So apparently Framework does consider it an upgrade over the old processors, even if not all the AI 300 mainboards have clear performance mprovements in all areas. So the ball is now in Framework’s court. What will they do with the 16?
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The 300 series doesn’t have the pcie lanes to work in the 16. It needs slots for a gpu, 2 ssds, and the usb4 slots.
People have already debated and counted out the issues of putting a 300 series on the 16 in other threads
With 8 lanes dedicated to a gpu, the 300 would leave only 8 left for both ssds, the wifi card and all usb/usb4 inputs. It would not work
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Best available right now I think is AMD Ryzen 9 7945HX3D. That’s not that much of an upgrade to produce a board based on that unfortunately. Framework already offers the Ryzen9 7940HS… we’ll have to wait until sometime that will work well in the FW16 is announced… could be 6 months!!
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I honestly don’t care about a new mainboard/cpu yet. The 7940 is plenty powerful. But they aren’t fixing the few annoying issues the 16 has currently, or releasing any new input modules, or those “input” modules they were working early on.
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Yeah I am mainly comparing it to the new AI 300 series chips. They are substantially faster, and as someone who likes to run my computers for as long as possible (My desktop is more than ten years old now (although I did upgrade to a 1080 8 years ago)), I try to buy the best processor possible at a time.
Reading some comments, it seems like there is some talk about how the AI 300 series has some issues, but they made it work in the 13 inch laptop. I shouldn’t be downgrading my machine to get a larger screen, or a (hopefully one day) upgradable GPU module. You are right that in the short term the CPU won’t matter that much, but it could be the difference between keeping my computer for 8 years or 12. Especially if that upgradable GPU actually materializes.
My laptops so far have not lasted more than about 5 years a piece, but I am hoping that framework could change that.
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I’ve had a Fairphone for a while, bought for the longevity and repairability. It’s now in a landfill, not because it was broken, not because it was outdated, but because they couldn’t fix their stupid software.
Is that the same type of sustainability that framework wants to achieve?
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The 13" laptop uses far fewer PCIe lanes than the FW 16. The “max” chips have their own challenges, such as soldered RAM, and FW said they weren’t willing to go with soldered RAM in the FW 16 right now.
I know it’s frustrating to wait, not knowing what FW is working on. But they tend not to reveal what’s coming until it is all-but ready to go. They have said multiple times that they are working on things for the FW 16, and that they have a long roadmap with a lot of plans for the FW 16.
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Agreed. Also we desperately need a new BIOS update.
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Seems like this PCIe reduction is across the board with AMD. I guess, if we’ll see a new FL16 mainboard, they’ll have to route x2 that can be SATA to the 2230 SSD.
Benchmark-wise the Ryzen AI 9 HX 375 has about a 10% single-core and 20% multi-core bump in performance compared to 7940HS. Not nothing, but not super substantial either. In the same generation as 7940HS, two years ago, AMD released 7945HX which has a 25% multi-core advantage already.
So I wouldn’t say AI 9 HX 375 will last you 4 years longer.
Many people say to get a new computer not when the bleeding edge changes, but when you actually need a new one. Because bleeding edge always changes, and you will feel disappointed no matter what when the new stuff comes out.
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I think we all need to remember that the 16 only started arriving on peoples desks about 15 months ago.
It would be a bit soon for a massive refresh without upsetting those that only recently dropped 2K on a laptop.
Maybe the FW16 could have a hardware refresh, but even with the same CPU.
I.e.
- Improve the USB ports, so you can plug more 15W devices in at the same time, if running on a 180W/240W PSU. Currently, you can only plug one 15W device in at a time.
- Make the USB ports more compatible with a wider variety of devices.
- Make it possible to power off more devices when going into suspend. I.e. If I don’t wish an expansion slot to act as a wakeup, it should be powered off.
This making suspend last longer. - Fix any crashes that might be hardware related. E.g. the FTR and FTH issues.
- Support PD of 85W output. For example, with the laptop in low power mode, it could provide far more than 15W to an external USB slot. Thus use it to power other higher power devices in an emergency.
- The current FW16 uses 17 of the 20 PCIe lanes. Find ways to utilize all 20 PCIe lanes. Maybe add an extra PCIe slot for 4G/LTE/5G card and have good RF antennas for it on the display, like for WiFi / Bluetooth.
- Somehow fit ergonomic shaped keyboards. E.g. like the Microsoft natural keyboard, but on the laptop. The FW16 has quite a large area. Maybe with a different mid-plate, one could arrange things differently.
Microsoft ergonomic keyboards - Wikipedia
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Hi, i’m still in for the framework 16 cause my desktop windows 10 pc will get no windows updates anymore after oktober ‘25 and cannot be upgraded after that time.
I can live with the 3 year old processor an graphic card. Iam also addicted on wanting the newest cpu etc. But want to support framework: ism a high fan!
My worry is as many in this thread that getting a 3 years old hardware will force me to buy new components in 5 years instead of 8 years from now… for a lot of money.
I hope framework understands that 16 buyers have different needs then 13 or 12 buyers.
In my case I need a lot of ram for productivity and lot of ssd space for video and photo files.
My question:
to be forworth compatible,
- is it possible to use PCIe 5.0 NVMe M. 2 storage instead of PCIe 4.0 NVMe M. 2? They should be from a hardware point of view but can the be handled software like?
- Same for Ram: can DDR5 with higher speed rates then the 5600 be used? I understand the extra speed will not be used for now, but it can on newer motherboards.
When possible I can now buy the older config and don’t need new ssd and ram after upgrading motherboard and cpu in the future.
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Well, how often have they upgraded the 13? 6 or 7 times? The 16 was already not new when it launched, so yes, now would be a good time to upgrade. Also, what if I, someone who hasn’t bought an FW16, wanted to buy one (which I do), why would I buy a generations old laptop?
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yes you can use pcie 5 ssds and faster ram.
the faster ram might give you problems but it’s very unlikely, but buy it in a way that would allow you to return it if it doesnt work
also it’s probably a good idea to wait out computex, which starts in 3 days. maybe they will announce something
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Regarding the PCIe 5.0 NVME M.2.
This is likely to run hotter than a PCIe 4.0 unit, so might be worth taking into account.
hotter also mean munches more power, thus shorter battery life.
Similarly for RAM, faster uses more power, thus shorter battery life.