If I would be likely charging my phone while using the Framework, assuming the Framework is running at full load, would a 65W adapter be sufficient or would it be better to get something higher (maybe 96-100W)?
I would get higher. But whatever size you choose, it MUST be a trustworthy brand, not just because of power quality/stability, but also because USB PD is a potential attack vector that could be used to compromise the machine.
NEVER use a USB PD charger you don’t completely trust or one that is offered for public use.
Been playing with my F.w i5-11 on a 100w USB-PD charger with a power meter in between them. 19.7v at .5 to 2.4 amps actual draw shown. I suspect a 60w would work okay, but might sip from the F.w battery for very short time periods to charge the phone if you also were running CPU into the higher TDP range…
As a layman, I am trying to get a good power adapter that works with the Framework. It seems that controller issues (above my pay grade) etc., make the 65W Framework adapter less than optimum. From reading the various posts, the consensus seems to indicate that around 100w is the sweet spot for my laptop (11th Gen Intel(R) Core™ i5).
As you say, the 96w is probably close enough for my needs.
Saw it, quite big for traveling around, which is what the Framework was supposed to be used for. I put my ass in different non-profit seats throughout Brooklyn and Queens and this laptop is optimized for that kind of work.
I do not pretend to understand the arcane discussion here about the controller and the battery interaction. As the discussion in this kind of disjointed community threads are all over the place, it is sometimes hard to find the correct information. What I have gleaned is that the power adapter should be larger than the supplied 65w. Why exactly? Ask someone with tech skills, not this layman. And to answer your query, yes I do have some peripherial hardware. Not sure it qualifies as serious drain on the power supply, but there it is. I have run into issues with USB-C modules and the power supply and occasionally, not often, but enough times the module will simply stop working with the power adapter and the old kludge of moving the power cable to the next USB-C connector works, each and every time. Why? Not a clue.
Here is a graph of the rate of charging from zero to full.
The maximum charge was 50W and only for a short period, so if the battery is fairly well charged, say 70% the battery only requires 30W to charge at the maximum rate. So if you use 40W of other power then the battery will only charge at 20W and take a little longer to charge.
Even if you use 50 for the laptop and peripherals the battery will still get 10W an hour etc.
Now I am thoroughly confused. Should I get a 100w or better power adapter or stick with the 65w one included with my Framework? Do you really need the 180w new adapter Framework has put out there and if so, why?
That’s for the upcoming FW16 which, with various GPU options, will have a much greater power envelope than the FW13. You will definitely not need 180W for the FW13 (and I doubt the FW13 can negotiate the voltage at which that would be available).
I guess people who want a 100W are afraid that pushing the 65W one to its limit might strain the unit. You’ll have to work very hard to draw more than 40W for an extended time period (and that would probably involve charging a nearly flat battery while doing significant computations). I’ve been very happy with the 65W.
Should you find yourself in scenarios where you need 100W (I’m not sure that the thermal design of the FW13 can really sustain that for very long), you can always get another adaptor. That’s the nice thing about USB-C charging (and 60W is a respectable amount so you’ll find a use for the other charger anyway).
Sure it won’t be needed but the voltages are standard PD 5V to 20V+ so will negotiate fine.
USB-C Power Delivery comes in two power levels. PD 2.0 and 3.0 over USB-C have the same 100W power rating as PD 1.0 over Type-A/B connectors. Power Delivery 3.1, however, offers a whopping 240W of power by pushing the voltage up.
USB PD never exceeds 5A of current, but the voltage can be dynamically configured to meet the needs of a device up to the maximum power limit for the standard.
The Device Handshake
When a USB PD charger connects to a device, it performs a “handshake” asking the device how much power it needs. USB PD supports seven voltage levels at 5V, 9V, 15V, 20V, 28V, 36V, and 48V.
As I have the FW11, even less need for that 180w… I am a semi-retired tech writer from CMP Media and Ziff-Davis, among many other writing gigs over the years. (Now non-profit grants for kids). I was always called the dumbest guy in the room up until I wrote something and blew the real techies away and my line was always the same:“I can write, you can’t.”
Shameless stealing of other people’s expertise. Dr. Dobb’s Journal is where I confounded the true techies the most. Research is key to good writing.
But I digress. I think I shall stick with the Framework adapter for now. It seems there are controller issues too, way above my pay grade. I have not pulled the trigger on buying a 100w power adapter and will not do so at this point.
For now I’m more than ok with the Framework. It became my ersatz desktop computer as I could not rely upon it in the field, as I travel between multiple non-profits. The tools I have on the Framework don’t easily translate to my tiny 4 gig Evolve travel note… as basic as you can get, but beggars can’t be choosers and it was an in-kind donation to me for work I did for yet another small non-profit which is and was cash short.
Any USB-PD adapter will work fine. 65W is enough to get full performance from the FW13, any generation of mainboard. A 100W adapter will pretty much just allow the battery to charge faster while the laptop is under high load.