I recently put in my order and it says on the email; “You’ve placed a deposit for a Framework pre-order in Batch 4”.
im expecting this to be around the last quarter of this year (2023).
Am I right?
when should I expect Frame.Work to bill me for the rest of the deposit?
will I get a notice a few days or weeks before just in case I need I don’t have enough money in the payment option I provided?
Pessimistically speaking (base on some historical shipping process), they tend to bill you within the last 10 days of the month (when they were shipping batches by the month), and ship out just before the end of the month.
They haven’t charged for batch 1 yet so it’s going to be a while haha
Is this for Intel or AMD?
its for AMD
They haven’t even billed for Q1 yet? Doesn’t Q1 refer to January, February, and March? If that’s true it’ll be over a year before Q4 ships out right? 
Batch 1, not Q1. They have said batch 4 should ship out in Q4. I don’t remember when they said batch 1 would ship, but I think maybe Q3.
I’m batch 1 Q3. I found this thread because I can’t get a resonable answer from them. They sent an email saying they recived them in their warehouse and that the will be shipping soon. The email said that I should expect another email that same day with further instructions. That was May 9th. Sunday was July 9th, so over two months and no follow up email. I contacted customer service and they said “We aren’t currently able to provide order-specific ship date estimates narrower than the month the Batch ships in due to a number of factors.” But they didn’t give me a month either. Is this normal. When is batch 1 Q3, When should I expect to actually see this laptop?
How can we know if even Framework itself does not know?
Have patience, people. We’re all in the same boat.
They should be updating us more…. It’s not that hard to tell us “we are still working on X and X it isn’t going to ship during the month of July.
Communication isn’t that hard
@Anachron Yes but what do these terms mean? Quarters are usually sections on a fiscal callendar. They don’t have to line up with the standard callendar. I’m just looking for some sort ball park range with the first part of my question. And with the second I’m hoping that other people who have purchased before might be able to provide an educated guess. Does it take a few months? Does it take over a year? I’m looking for any information I can get. Right now I feel completely in the dark.
I’m sure that if Framework were using definitions that didn’t match up with the standard calandar, they would have said so. My understanding is that Q3 means July-September of this year, but that could change if delays happen, as is outlined in the terms of sale.
This is the first time that Framework has used quarters to give batch estimates. In the past, including for 13th gen, they’ve given a specific month. Developing and manufacturing a new product is complicated and they don’t want to over-promise on a timeline and have to push things back.
When Framework has more information, they’ll let the community know. If you can’t wait and need a laptop urgently, your $100 deposit is fully refundable.
Alright folks, let me provide a bit of an education as it’s clear that people are trying to conflate how international tech behemoths operate and how a sub-50 person tech startup that’s engineered, developed, and shipped four (six by the end of this year) distinct product lines/generations in less than three years does.
We’re still very much working on Framework Laptop 13 (AMD Ryzen 7040 Series). We’re also working on Framework Laptop 16. We’re also shipping Framework Laptop 13 (13th Gen Intel Core) Batch 3 and are about to go “in-stock” with that product.
For Framework Laptop 13 (AMD Ryzen 7040 Series), we are not yet in the MP phase. For those unaware, the manufacturing process is as follows:
Proto: Prototyping phase. Throwing components together in some form factor to see if everything can work as engineered. It’s one thing to plan everything out, it’s a whole other thing to get the physical pieces together and have them work together in harmony. You can go through a large number of prototypes before finding something that can move on to the next phase.
EVT: Engineering Validation Test. This is when the main focus is on making sure that everything is pulled together and functions in the expected (rough) form factor. This step isn’t about making it look pretty, it’s about making sure it’s stable. This is a very, very small run of units are made at a VERY high cost. Internal resourcing “fishfoods” the hardware. Testing is limited to those that have a deep understanding of the hardware. Factory tooling for larger scale production is finalized and tested.
DVT: Design Validation Test. This is when you’ve already locked on form factor, components, and stability. Now it’s time to polish it up and get it ready for prime time. Every gap, every blemish, alignment, and other aesthetic areas are dialed-in while still retaining the functionality and stability of the previous phase. This is when “dogfooding” begins. Internal testing is more broad, and to catch issues before the next phase, you want as many people testing as possible, even those that aren’t as familiar with the hardware, as there can be blind spots for engineers and others that are really close to the product. This is the final phase before providing the sign-off to have the manufacturing lines using the tools pumping out large quantities of error-free parts.
MP: Mass Production. You’re flipping switches and running the line/s to manufacture the SKU-mix based on demand. This is why we take pre-orders. Having demand allows us to avoid over-producing/under-producing a certain configuration. We also do not manufacturing the entire demand lifecycle in one go. We continuously monitor pre-orders/sales and adjust accordingly. As a small company that is utilizing a partner and scheduling time on a manufacturing line for production, we don’t have the luxury of running multiple owned lines in tandem, or constantly switching what is being produced between them. The production schedule is like calculus, trying to determine how many should be created in each run which is constrained by inbound components from supply chain partners that are also supplying other companies at the same time. There could be a temporary shortage, perhaps something is short-shipped, maybe an issue is found in a component from a sourced partner and the stock that existed has to be quarantined while awaiting new supply. The ebb and flow of manufacturing is complex, and for a company of our size, even more so.
So why can we only state Q4? That’s because we haven’t started MP yet, and we have no idea what can and will happen once the lines start pumping out product. Only when we have more information on manufacturing yield (because you still have to test what comes off the line to ensure quality prior to approving for shipment to customers) will we be able to provide a more concrete estimate. We could pull a date out of thin air, which would be wrong, and provide that to you, but then when we miss that date, we’re blasted on social media and in Support for “lying” to customers. We’re not in the business of doing that, and we’ll provide more granular timelines when we have them.
The deposit is 100% refundable until we capture final payment. If not having an exact date this far out is not your cup of tea, that’s totally understandable and valid. You can simply self-cancel your order on the website and get that $100 (or Euro or Pound or AUD) back without any hassle. When we have shipped out the early Batches and we’re getting close to “in-stock” we’ll be providing granular shipping estimates like, “ships within 5 business days.” For the first runs of a brand new product, this is how it will be unfortunately.
Thanks for your patience, and I hope this helps clarify things a bit.
Thank you this does help. For me at least, I only want to see some routine updates every few weeks on the status for the 13 Ryzen, similar to how the 16 is at least getting blog posts on the functionality.
There isn’t much difference between the Framework Laptop 13 variants. The only delta is the mainboard and some smaller things, so there is just nothing to update on that could span weeks of content. That’s just the honest truth.
I don’t see a reason to assume that. It’s a very common for companies of any sizes to have separate fiscal years. My only point in mentioning it is that it doesn’t provide any information (unless you assume it’s based on a callendar year.)
Ok thats good to know. Thank you.
Yea I completly get and support that, it’s just, the email they sent said they where ready to ship and said to expect instructions with next steps that same day and then no instructions came and communications stopped and that was over 2 months ago. In that context does my quest for clarification make a little more sense?
? Who is conflating what? … Anyway thanks for your response. although it seemed a little catty at times, it was ultimatly very informative.
This was indeed news. Because you said this, I’ve come to realise the email I got was refering to Framework Laptop 13 intel version but it was sent to more than just those people. It all makes a lot more sense now. That’s the sort of clarification I was looking for so again thank you.
This is less helpfull; seems dismissive of some folks just looking for some clarification, For the sake of being possitve, I’m going to treat this as something that was meant to just be a point of information instead of how my first instincts tell me to interpret it.
For what it’s worth I’m glad you both responded, Thank you for the clarification.
From a confidence perspective, this makes a lot of sense. For the previous releases, since the changes to the CPU and mainboard were primarily iterative, they could be forgiven for being a little lax on the testing side of the equation. Just human nature. But for the AMD release, they are essentially starting from scratch. Only worse, because they don’t have as much freedom when it comes to the design and layout of the mainboard. I imagine parts of that were incredibly difficult.
Edit: I might’ve been a bit too careless with my phrasing. Based on the videos I’ve seen, it seems that you take testing very seriously. I only meant that, in the beginning, either because you don’t yet have automated tests and/or simply because your testers will naturally be more insecure (and therefor more critical), that (relative to new product testing) testing of iterative changes may be more “lax”.
I’m curious… To reach this phase, are you also doing all the testing/patching for Intel-based systems to make the transition to AMD (and vice versa), or will that come in a later phase? I believe you might be, if one the LTT videos is anything to go by, but a definitive answer might help the community better understand what other concerns are being addressed behind the scenes.
Kind of a tough call. If it were me, I think I’d want that buttoned down before any of the units left my control. But I also understand the pressure you’re probably facing, wanting to hit the timelines you forecasted.
Either way, I hope you delay the deliveries if you need extra time. No sense getting bad press for a rushed delivery. It would suck (to delay), and you’d see cancellations and bad press. But it would be the better call in the long run, IMO. Any bad press for a delay would probably be less damning than sending units that were not up to par.
just to clarify, do you guys reckon batch 1 is still on track for q3? or has it been pushed back? no problem if it has, just wondering when to expect it.
I dont care if its delayed by a few months but please Framework team, update the community on whats going on with the 13 AMD laptops! Its very frustrating to have “Q3” everywhere on the Framework site and then get no updates for ages. I would pay a higher deposit if it meant a better understanding of when we can expect the product. Appreciate all of your work. Ive never been more excited about a laptop. Based on the above comments i can see this is complicated.
It’s a bit weird they even send out an email explaining the 16 batches all sold out in X number of hours and the current batch will ship in Q1 2024,
With the 13, it’s just radio silence.
It’s starting to feel like AMD screwed up big time. You have articles in January talking about this CPU being better than apple’s m2 chip.
By the time these ship, Apple will have 2 new cpus out 