Viability of an ML 1220 rechargable battery for RTC | CMOS (11th gen)

Community Support
103

Maybe it’s time we have an unofficial poll to see what people would like to see as the next step.

What are some of the reasonable outcome you would like to see as forward options for the poll?

…and I think this could go beyond just looking at this issue. Maybe look at it from a general product hardware issue. Somewhat similar to what Louis Rossmann said around right to repair, it’s not just about one product, one issue. It may not affect you now, for the product you got, but you would still want to have the ‘option’ for right to repair, maybe for another product, maybe for a family member…etc.

So, if we look at the ‘repair’ side of things (i.e. not throwing the board away), is there a potential option that there could be a ‘mod kit’ to over come this issue (be it a combination of software and hardware)? Something like the old days where you have mod kit for your PlayStation, or ThinkPad x220 1080p mod…etc

@Louis_Rossmann, would this be something Chris might be interested in working on as a side project…together with Framework and see if this could be fixed? Maybe a bounty for a solution?

The other thing I would like to see is for Framework to update the marketplace listing for the 11th gen board, to include details / warning about this issue.

4 Likes
104

Rooting for AMD in the long run.

Multiple layers of Spectre and Meltdown fixes over the years have slowed down a lot of my virtualisation work systems.

106

Also, just want to point out that the “sell it” suggestion from Framework Support (allegedly, by a poster above) is not a solution, and if it’s a solution, it’s a lazy one at best.

If Framework really stands behind repairability and sustainability, then I believe the correct course of action is to come up with a ‘fix’ in the form of a repair or modification service to the already existing boards that are already in the wild.

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107

Worse than that in my world. I don’t sell defective items to other’s. Of course if you expalin all the above ‘caveat emptor’

But it reeks of a really sinical and sly move.

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108

It’s like when folks have their home just 30 feet from the edge of a sea eroded cliff and people go “Why don’t you just sell it and move!”

Who do I sell it to? Spongebob?

Who wants to buy a laptop you have to keep constantly charged…unlike all the other laptop options available.

I just opened up the Framework and popped the bios battery out again. Back up and running.

Now I know why they included the screwdriver in the box…I’ll be using it a lot more than I thought.

I can see it now turning up to a customer to do some work and having to take my Framework apart in front of them to get it working again.

Customer - “Hey J isn’t this the laptop you said was amazing and fully repairable?”

Me - “Yeah, turns out not quite fully repairable!”

109

Maybe Framework supply a replacement board with the recharge links to the battery socket disconnected and a proper battery? I can live with having to swap in a new one once every couple of years?

1 Like
110

Surpising it’s not an issue for me, but it would have been nice to know and not have to find out on the forum. Luckily I did find out here so am forewarned, and building home near cliff or a near a river that can flood is a clear and present danger.

This issue was not foreseen nor could reasonbly be expected.

111

No I was referring to coastal erosion. One day your home is 200m from the cliff. 5 years later its 30 feet…

112

Foresight is a reasonble option there but I wouldn’t say that about flakey RTC battery

113

Point is…no one wants a laptop you have to take apart every few days to kickstart back to life.

Once this gets out to the wider public, Framework second hand laptops could be worth a lot less.

114

I’m not sure your description is that accurate.

There seem to be two issues

  • The RTC battery, once charged should last for two or three weeks. If it isn’t charged then sure power will have to be supplied externally.

  • If the voltage gets very low then plugging won’t do much if anything and then the RTC battery can be removed to let it recover enought to get the BIOS to come alive.

So this will only occur is some circumstances, it is not a thing that everyone will have to do. Given I use mine daily then I’m hopeing it will never happen.

Back to your residence comparison, if you don’t use a house for a few weeks regularly or only for a day or two every few weeks it won’t be that surprising to find someone may have squatted it, or even sold it.

115

Ok I think I know who/what I’m dealing with here. :thinking: :joy:

116

Think someone in this thread mentioned a car analogy (non-EV).

The CMOS battery is like the car’s 12v battery. Imagine that you have to jumpstart your car everytime you want to drive it? This was particular the case for old cars (old car batteries) during covid time because of the work-from-home, shop once a week, go out less, only travel within your community / short distance.

2 Likes
117

Oh don’t, some folks really struggle with analogies! :rofl: :wink:

118

You mean this Framework is more like a racing horse you gotta keep hydrated every race rather than a camel once a week.

119

If the ML1220 connector was implemented not as a clip, but as a two-pin connector…we could have just opt for a wider button battery…something like an ML2020 (same thickness as the ML1220). It has 45mAh capacity instead of 17mAh (nominal).

But of course, this isn’t a fix for why it’s draining so, seemingly, quickly.

Looking at the specs for ML1220 (from Panasonic):

It has a continuous drain of 0.03 mA. From a 100% health, and 100% charged…that means the battery should last around 23 days. Assuming the Framework laptop doesn’t drain the battery faster than that.

So, assuming that drain rate of 0.03mA…the ML2020 could last 62 days.

And, if the clip mechanism wasn’t there, there’s likely enough height to fit an ML2032…which could last for 90 days.

120

[quote=“Second_Coming, post:119, topic:17664”]
we could have just opt for a wider button battery[/quote]

That was my thought, a dummy battery that clips into the existing socket with a bigger battery wired to it. A sticky pad holds it in place.

However, looking at the board pictures, I reckon the existing battery was the largest they could actually fit. :thinking:

But maybe something could go under the ram area? The bit that looks like another SSD should clip in to.

121

Under the RAM is typically a no-go. Batteries needs to stay away from heat-generating sources / components.

122

Yeah but I’m willing to take the risk. It’s not a gaming PC. Someone can do temp testing I’m sure. :wink:

The existing battery is pretty close to the ram anyway.

Just want a laptop I can leave for more then a week without having to take it apart. Not too much to ask for in 2022. :joy:

1 Like
123

Agree. Hope Framework will have a solution for this…or at least one that can minimize the occurrence of this. In the meantime, I’m going to wait for the next gen board reviews.

1 Like