Which kernel are you using?
6.8 and 6.11 have both had problems
Which BIOS version are you using?
3.05
Which Framework Laptop 13 model are you using?
AMD 7840U
Exactly what the title says. The machine just randomly cuts power. Nothing in the system logs (journalctl).
I’m not terribly hopeful I’m going to get any help. This machine has been nothing but trouble since I got it and always had at least one thing wrong with it. They did finally fix the severe sleep mode overheating problem in the kernel, but now I’ve got random shutdowns plus the delete key failure. It’s gotten absurd. I’ve had a ton of Thinkpads and never had anything like this happen to them (and am probably just going back to them at this point).
Framework: I really loved your core concept, but the execution is just not there. I’m a professional user, I can’t have a laptop just turn off randomly. I can’t have the keyboard stop registering key presses on the delete key. I can’t have a laptop in sleep mode in my backpack run the CPUs at 100% and get so hot I have to take it out and force a hard power down.
As far as I can tell, the hardware was glitchy from day 1, but since I’m out of warranty, you’re just going to tell me to pound sand or buy a new mainboard (which is expensive enough that I can just buy a brand new Thinkpad).
I’m willing to try out the latest BIOS, and I’ll take any debugging tips anyone has. But to me (as an EE) this looks like a serious issue with the battery controller (since the OS seems to know nothing about it, and as a long time Linux user, this is not a thing Linux does unless something else is really broken).
I’m really disappointed y’all. I design electronics for a living - people in my community really listen to me when I give a positive or negative recommendation for computers. I cannot recommend Framework.
Have you tried updating the BIOS and running Fedora 42 to see if you can reproduce the issue ? I’m running it with 7840u and never had a random shutdown.
Had this with Intel Macs, Thinkpads and other systems unfortunately - when using “modern standby” in particular. It’s quite disappointing that AMD decided to cease support for S3 suspend. I think at the this point hibernate is the way to go whenever one is travelling …
I have a similar setup: FW13 AMD Ryzen 7640 running Linux Mint Mate 22.1. If you have an SSD that Framework shipped, is the firmware updated? When I updated mine, my random hard crashes seemed to mostly resolve. I have a WD_BLACK SN770 250GB.
I have the same issue. If you search the forums you’ll find multiple threads of other people with the same issue.
This post and the linked level1forums thread suggests the issue is in the hardware design, which would require replacement to fix. I have no idea if they’re correct because I’m a software guy, not an electrical engineer. FW13 AMD random reboots - #17 by Xavier_Jiang
Framework has already demonstrated via the 11th gen RTC battery debacle that they will not do the right thing and issue a recall for hardware defects, so I’m desperately hoping they’re wrong about it being a hardware defect.
They being Mint or Framework? It is was dependent on the kernel than that means the driver in it. That is not a Framework issue, and rather is a distro and Linux issue.
As for the failures that you are seeing, if your computer was overheating without cooling during suspend, then heat could have damaged components.
I’m just curious about whether that is a Linux problem or was a hardware and thus Framework problem.
The curious is that not all units are affected. Mine (though the Sixteen, use the same chip). No problem whatsover.
Could be that the 7840U/HS reference design is different. I dont know, but seems like this is a widespread issue. Quick search reveal quite the large amount of content.
The overheating issue was the AMD support in the Linux kernel. LM 22.1 is shipping with kernel versions that fix this, but earlier versions weren’t and you needed to update the kernel yourself to mitigate that.
Yeah yeah I know LM wasn’t “officially” supported but it’s Ubuntu based for a reason. All of the normal Ubuntu stuff works fine on Mint. Just tell us the kernels that work, lol.
So the problem with that was two fold:
Framework support was not helpful in indicating that we needed to be running a newer kernel version, and that is information I expect a hardware developer that specifically supports Linux to know. You’re laying out the CPU and chipsets on the mainboard, your organization should know what software supports it.
Thermal protection is a hardware/firmware issue, not a kernel issue. The hardware should have been automatically shutting down to prevent thermal damage, and it wasn’t. That kind of protection is standard issue for anything that is lithium powered. Thus, if the heat was sufficient to damage components, that stems from bad design on Framework’s part. Battery thermal safety is NOT the user’s responsibility.
Well, that is pretty wild if true. As an EE I’m actually sympathetic, if you get a bad reference design from the chip vendor you are kinda screwed.
But the problem on FW’s end is that I bought this machine when the 7040 was coming out, in late 2023. Here I am 18 months later and I still don’t have a reliable machine. If there’s a firmware fix, why is it taking years to get it out the door? And if it is a hardware problem, then I’m sorry FW but you need to make this right regardless of warranty status and you should probably consider taking AMD to court over the expense.
So at this point, if I buy another machine (it will be a Thinkpad), should I just skip over AMD entirely? I have an AMD in my desktop and it’s awesome but it seems like the mobile support for AMD’s lineup has been quite a mess. I really like the 7840 by itself but I need a reliable machine first and a fast one second.
There was an issue found with a run of the keyboards, you might try reaching out to Support for that one.
Is the laptop waking from suspend while in your bag? I know that there was an issue with screen flex causing keypresses in the 16" but hadn’t heard of anything similar in the 13". If something is in fact waking it up, are there any logs pointing towards what that might be? Reading back, I see that this was a kernel issue. Ok, ignore this paragraph, but I will leave it for completeness.
For the sudden power-offs, is there any pattern in the logs leading up to the shutdown? I have several 13" machines, but all are intel. The one amd I have is in the 16", so not apples to apples. I have considered upgrading one of the 13" intel machines, but since they are pretty stable I will hold off until I can move to something that I know will be as stable (for me).
This is the danger of Linux and WHY Framework specifically supports 2 Linux distros. The kernel is responsible for addressing the thermal system uses. The EC handles these things, but the kernel interfaces with it, and CAN override it’s preprogrammed actions. For example, if there is a bug in the kernel and the driver responsible for this have a bug and error out after attempting to override the EC.
So complaining that Framework didn’t do this or that seems premature if you are not 100% sure that the kernel is not the source of the issue. IE: Load Fedora or Ubuntu (or even Windows). Does it do the same thing? IF SO, then you are right that it is a hardware issue.
Please note that what I am talking about has NOTHING to do with how your machine is just randomly shutting off now. Although improper controlling of cooling could have lead to symptoms causing the shutdown now.
Battery thermal safety has nothing to do with Linux, you do this at the hardware/firmware level. The OS shouldn’t be involved at all. I do this professionally, and can recognize unprofessional work when I see it.
You cannot have safety features rely on the a conventional PC operating system, that’s asking for problems.
Listen, I don’t want to argue with you. But as someone who is directly controlling the EC on a project of mine, I can tell you that if I tell the EC to run the fan at 10% it will NOT change until I have rebooted, or enter a low power state and resumed. This means temps will rise until the boards thermal fail safe cuts power.
Likewise charging will stop on the battery if the battery hits a certain temperature.
Now, I am not certain WHAT the Linux kernel is doing on the distro you are using. But if it miscommunicates with the EC and fails, this could leave the EC in a state that is not using the auto fan curve. This is what I am talking about.
Otherwise, yes, like you are saying, I don’t know why your EC wouldn’t be responding to temps correctly. There may be a hardware failure there that you should be contacting Framework about.
The battery controller is supposed to shut down automatically in an overtemp, this is standard for anything lithium powered. The kernel has nothing to do with it.
In any case, the latest kernels do not have the 100% CPU while asleep bug (sure would’ve been nice if FW had talked about which versions have the fix!).
We are getting off topic, the issue at hand is the random shutdowns. Which sound like they probably don’t have a fix either.
I’m pricing out Thinkpads. You can get the same CPU for less in a machine with a long history of being reliable.
I’ve contacted FW support, but I’m expecting the typical runaround. I’m mostly just here to add my complaint to the wall of complaints and confirm that they aren’t going to do anything about it before opening my wallet and moving on.
Sorry y’all. We took a risk on a company with some good ideas and a worthwhile mission, but frankly I’m not convinced they can actually execute on it.
I am missing why you think your battery is overheating and causing a shutdown. I am still talking about how your system is just powering off in the middle of use. I’m not sure why you are talking about your battery. I must have missed that in this thread. Anyway sounds like you have a way forward. I’m sorry that it doesn’t seem to be working out.
As someone with 4 Framework 13 and several mainboard projects I have not had any issues like you are mentioning here. Of course all of my Framework products are Intel. I have been meaning to pick up some AMD based upgrades.
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